Are car dealers legally required to show you the invoice of a new car you’re negotiating on? I’ve found nothing on the web, and I’ve spent all day trying to get ahold of a live person at my states consumer protection division. I can’t find anything in my statute books either.
I’m not a lawyer.
I can’t imagine anyone, in any field, being required to show a customer the wholesale invoices for items the business bought. That’s between the business and its suppliers.
The customer is certainly entitled to a retail receipt or invoice for whatever he buys from the company, but the company’s costs are none of the customer’s business.
In my experience most will if you ask, but I do not think they are required by law in most places, but I could be wrong.
Many say they will, but that invoice does not accurately show what they actually have in a car, due to many “deals” from the Manufacturors. They could sell the car to you “for invoice” and still make a bundle.
they; can sell it for less than invoice and still make a good profit with factory incentives.
Having worked in the biz for many years I was never aware of any legal requirement to show any invoice and in fact in most cases we politely refused.
A General Motors dealer invoice isn’t exactly a consumer friendly spreadsheet with neatly arranged and easily understood column headings or anything like that.
In the few cases where the sales manager agreed to show a customer a copy of the invoice, we made a photocopy of the original with all the good stuff covered in post-its. We would circle a number near the bottom declaring that that amount was the invoice and usually the customer would just nod his head in agreement. He had no idea which number was the dealer invoice.
Beyond that, yes, the dealer does cut a check to the manufacturer for the true invoice amount, but as stated above, the dealer does receive allowances and such reducing the true cost of the vehicle to the dealer.
However, invoice price is irrelevant to the selling price in many niches. If the dealer can get as many cars as he wants and has a good on-hand supply, $200 over invoice is a good deal for all concerned parties. However, if supply is short and demand is high invoice is irrelevant–the market determines the price.
I have heard that dealers don’t actually buy the car unless it’s sold. They pay a sort of rental fee while the car sits on the lot.
Any truth to this?
Does your grocer have to tell you what he paid for the tomatoes? 
I can only speak for General Motors, but most of their dealers in the area where I worked participated in what is known as “floorplan” which means the dealer pays only the interest on the invoice amount of the vehicle until he cuts a check for the invoice amount. The dealer is allowed a certain amount of days within the sale of the vehicle or by the end of the calendar month or some such to cut the check. Dealers who excessively abuse their floorpan rights can become ex-dealers.
The floorplan allows dealers who want to leverage their cash to offer many more vehicles in stock than they might if they had to pay full invoice amount at delivery. The thought is that a greater selection will yield increased sales which benefits both the dealer and GM.
A struggling nearby dealer was notorious for selling his floorplan cars to out of state non-floorplan dealers for cash (check) and playing the float to pay his short-term operating expenses. He eventually lost his franchise.
I knew of only one dealer in the NW Suburban Chicago area who did not finance his cars via floorplan. He also filled the gas tank of every car on his lot the minute it rolled off the transporter. Considering that some cars ordered with bizarre option combinations or colors are known to celebrate a “birthday” on a dealer’s lot, I’m not sure I’d recommend this practice.
On the other hand I know of a dealer in the West Los Angeles area who owns all the cars, all the buildings, all the equipment, all the parts inventory and a couple of acres of very prime real estate.
I would gladly trade my income for what he doesn’t pay in flooring and other intrest costs.
Me too. But as a dealer it really depends on what else you might earn on your cash instead of sinking it in inventory and plant and equipment. If you have no significant cash, then it’s academic. It would seem pretty difficult to be able to borrow money to finance inventory any cheaper than GM would charge its dealers, but strange things do happen sometimes.
You’re comparing apples and er…, tomatoes.
There are much different laws concerning grocery stores and car dealers. And I know all the games regarding the invoice, but I still want to get a look at one before i negotiate a car.
The fact is, in 25 years of driving I’ve never had a car dealer refuse to show me an invoice…until yesterday. I walked out on him when he wouldn’t. Tonight he called me up and told me I could see it. I hung up on him. He called me back and appologized for the delay. I hung up on him. Then I (to his surprise) showed up at the dealership. His manager (I hate that “good cop/bad cop” shit they play with the managers) came out and gave me the invoice. After 3 frigging hours of playing the secret manager game and such, I got the car for less than their first offer, and 248 less than invoice (yes, I know they still made money off me). This price was before the rebates. But then when it came time to sign for delivery (I took the vehicle home tonight) I refused to sign unless they threw in some extra perks. They blew their top and really got pissed. I told him I was mad that he made me come back here over that stupid invoice, and that I would have bought the thing last night had they cooperated. I ended up getting 3 free oil changes, 3 free car washed, and a bunch of really dirty looks.
They still made money off me. But not as much.
Well, if you can’t get one from the dealer you can probably get one from Consumers Reports for a few bucks.
pk - what dealer was it?in pig latin
I don’t think the Mods would be Wild about the idea of me naming names. In fact, I think they might be Wild with anger if I did. And I wouldn’t want to be booted out of here and left out in the wild. Now if you’ll excuse me, I have a roll of wild cherry candy I want to eat. I’m just wild about that flavor.
Got it.
By any chance are you referring to the window sticker with the retail factory price? If that’s the case, in some (most) states I think it is the case that that the dealer is required by law to display the sticker on the car.
If my memory serves me, I think the issue came up during times of high inflation when dealers were trying to upcharge on cars that had been on the lot for awhile. They removed the original factory sticker to take advantage of price increases although they did not apply to the specific vehicle on the lot. Nonetheless, dealers can charge more than the retail price if they can get it. A new, hot model that is in limited supply may command a premium over the sticker price.
Nope. The invoice is a form that shows how much the dealer actually pays the manufacturer for the car. At one time it was an acurate way to determine how much one could actually get a car for. But the industry has gummed it up with hold backs and incentives and other things, the invoice seems almost worthless to the consumer. Time was I would ask a dealer to see the invoice on a vehicle and they would show you.
Here is an example using the vehicle I bought.
The MSRP (that’s the price on the window sticker) is $25,039. The Invoice shows a cost of $23,529, giving the dealer a profit of about 1500. No person in their right mind should want a car dealer to get that much more of their money, so they try to negotiate off that amount, not the window sticker amount. But hold backs and incentives make the invoice amount somewhat high.