Car Insurance Settlement Question--Halp!

Factual Questions
1

Here’s the deal–about a month and a half ago, a garbage truck backed into my parked car, removing the driver’s side mirror and doing some creative bodywork on the door itself. The mirror is one of those that has the adjuster lever on the inside, and it’s all messed up. The door itself is kinda tweaked as well. So, I call the garbage company, they send somebody out, he takes a look at the bigass tire scruffs on the door and the large flecks of garbage-truck-green paint all over the place, says “here’s our insurance company info, they’ll be contacting you.”

Couple days later, they did contact me, told me to get an estimate. Being an A/R kind of person, I got three. The estimates ranged from $1100 from a local fly-by-night place that advertises heavily on the radio to $1650 from the El Luxo body shop. Right in the middle is my mechanic, at $1400. I threw out the high and low estimates. I asked the lowballers, who didn’t do more than give a cursory look at my door, what they would do if it turned out their estimate was too low and they said they’d just call the insurance company and have them pony up more cash–this sounded dubious to me. The highballers seemed needlessly pickyass and I didn’t like their attitude anyway so since I really trust my mechanic and he’s been working with me for ten years I submitted his estimate.

Now I realize my car is no great shakes–1989 Chevy Cavalier Z24 with a bluebook somewhere around $1500-1700. However, it’s my car, I like it, and I’ve spent a fair amount of time and money getting it into very nice shape mechanically, with an eye to taking care of the cosmetics last when I have the rest up to where I want it. I have probably $2500 into it including initial purchase cost. I have receipts for a lot of this, but nobody’s asked to see it.

After no word from the insurance company, they didn’t return phone calls, I got a call from a local appraiser who said he was coming by to look at the car but who must’ve done so without notifying me because I never heard another word from him, and me getting pissed off (because I can’t drive the damned thing with a busted mirror without getting a bigass ticket) and calling the adjuster’s boss I finally heard back from him. He says the car’s a total loss and offered $750.

So now I have a release form they want me to sign to get an amount that won’t fix the damage back to where it was before they backed the truck into it–so my car is worth even less than it was. I’ve had to drive my other vehicle for a month, which gets 1/3 the mileage of the damaged car, so I’m out a couple hundred bucks in excess fuel costs on top of the damage. I can’t fix the damned thing, and the second best solution, which is to find a good door from a wrecking yard, is still going to cost more than the $750 they want to give me for the damage.

They say they can offer me whatever they think the car is “worth.” I say that regardless of the “worth” of the car, it’s up to them to fix what they fucked. Going by their rationale, I should be able to go into an antique store, bust the shit out of a bunch of stuff, then give the proprietor five bucks because that’s what I think it’s worth.

I could almost see it if this was MY insurance company, where I pay premiums based on the value of my car so it’s only insured up to that point–but this is someone else randomly fucking up my car, and if it had been a brand new Ferrari they’d be giving me a check for about ten times that amount, minimum so WTF? They should fix it! Their client pays premiums sufficient to cover whatever damage they’re likely to cause–what difference does it make to the insurance company WHAT they damaged, they have an estimate, they should cover the cost of the damage their client caused, right?

What the heck are my options here? What if I refuse to sign the release? Do I have a chance if I take them to small claims court to get the amount it’s going to take to fix? I’d also like to get reimbursed for being without my car for a month and a half, the excess gas I used by having to drive the van and to make it all even more vivid, since it sat there with the door tweaked it’s also gotten very moist in there, since this is the PNW and it RAINS A LOT, so it’s smelling fusty too!

Any insight/info/revenge strategy would be hugely appreciated!

2

My immediate suggestion would be to call your insurance company and let them ream out the other insurer.

Insurers generally declare a car a write-off if the cost of repair (plus rental + future loss of value due to accident history) is 75% or more of the appraised value. I’m pretty sure you don’t have to accept their valuation, though.

I’d call a lawyer.

3

Unfortunately, on top of every other goddamned thing I’m unemployed and pretty much penniless, so getting a lawyer isn’t an option–and according to my insurance company it’s not their problem since I only carry liability.

I know what the insurance companies say is what they are obligated to pay, but my larger question is that when they’re fixing something THEIR client did, why does the appraised value of the car matter? It’s kinda specious, isn’t it? What does the value of the car have to do with the fact that it’s going to take at least $1100 to fix what their client did to it? Why can’t I go up to their business and throw bricks through eight or ten huge windows, then tell them that MY opinion of the damage is ten bucks, because it’s an old building anyway?

Why in the hell can these dickheads just do whatever they want and nobody has any recourse? Gah, I’m pissed and my damned car is still broken!

kicks things

4

Welcome to the exciting world of insurance. Unfortunately, insurance companies are out to make money and they cannot do that by paying everyone as much as he wants to receive.

The odds are fairly stacked against you. As I’ve mentioned before, SDMB isn’t the world’s best place to go to for medical/legal advice. You can try to reason with insurers personally, but I really doubt they are going to budge. Maybe you can find a lawyer who is willing to take on your case pro bono. If you lived in the Toledo area, my ex’ mother was pretty generous about these kinds of situations as she doesn’t have much love for the insurance companies herself.

5

The insurance company will not pay more than the car is worth to fix it. You have two options: 1) Consider it a total loss and turn it over to the insurance company for the actual cash value (usually plus tax and title fee, but that may depend on what state you are in) and try to replace it for a comparable vehicle, or
2) You can usually owner retain the vehicle (again depending on what state you are in), which means they take the total loss settlement and deduct what they would get for the car at salvage auction and pay you the difference.

If you don’t think the insurance company is being fair about the market value of the car, do some research and print out what you are finding these cars with similar mileage are selling for in your area right now. Have the adjuster review them. They might negotiate with you a bit.

6

I can’t address the rest of the OP, but I know that this is how it works. I got a quote for a bumper, and when they took it off it turned out the actual bumper* was busted, too. I believe it was referred to as a *supplemental *claim.

*As opposed to just the bumper cover. The actual bumper is under the shiny plastic/fiberglass, and is quite the work of technology on a modern car. As for why they didn’t include that in the original estimate, I have no idea. Lowballing, maybe?

7

One important consideration is that the insurance company is standing in the shoes of the garbage company. The insurance company has nothing to do with you, they have no contract with you – you can think of it as if they had run into your car. They are offering you what they think the damage is worth (or at least what they think it will take to make you go away). There usually isn’t a statutory basis for damages in a tort case like this.

You don’t have to accept their settlement, and it’s certainly possible for a court to order they pay full repair cost, though perhaps not likely. The insurance company is most likely lowballing you pretty hard too.

You have a couple of options. First, threaten to sue in small claims (politely but firmly). You don’t need a lawyer in small claims, but you will need to pay some court fees. They might raise their offer or they might not, in which case you can sue them. Ask for all the damages you think you have suffered. You can also show how well you have maintained the car and how much money you have in it.

Secondly, you can get a lawyer who will take the case on a contingency fee if your jurisdiction is one that allows lawyers for small claims. It’s probably going to cost you 30% or so, and is probably easier to just do it yourself.

So basically think of the insurance company as some cheapskate who hit your car and doesn’t want to pay what you think it’s worth. You can take the hit or sue them. Personally it sounds like they are giving you a bit of runaround and a lowball offer and hope you take it and go away. Just remember that this is really small beans to the insurance company and that they might change your tune if you don’t fold.

There are also probably several lawyers in your area who would be happy to give you a little free consult with accurate information on the local laws. It is probably worth your effort to call around a bit and see what you can dig up.

This is all probably wrong, and is not legal advice, and I don’t work for you.

8

You just need to haggle with them. If it’s a total, they need to pay what the car is worth, not what they think it is worth. Point out the blue book and NADA value and demand that price. And look into retaining the vehicle and getting it fixed for cheaper or not even fixing it and spending the money on beer.

They simply didn’t know the extent of the damage until they took the cover off to see it. The only alternative would be ‘highballing’ it and that wouldn’t be good for their relationship with the insurance companies.

9

This is a very common misconception of insurance companies. Most of them are actually there to pay what is owed, not to lowball or be cheap. But if insurance companies were careless with overpaying claims then premiums would go up. Way up.
I, for one, would rather have to negotiate a fair settlement with an adjuster (should I even have a claim) then pay sky-high premiums every month because the adjusters were paying too much on each claim and the companies start facing insolvency unless they increase premiums.
Yes, insurance companies have a lot of money in the bank and investments. That is to be sure that when catastrophes happen there is money to pay for all of that, plus the continuing everyday claims.
I think that if SmartAleq calls and has a civil conversation with the adjuster there is a fair settlement to be reached. But then again, I don’t know which company he is dealing with either… Just sayin’…

10

Oh yes, I totally forgot about this. The whole “totalled” thing really only applies when it is your own insurance company. Basically the insurance company buys your car at 60-75% value minus your deductable. You can opt to keep the car, but they will also subtract the money the car would have fetched at salvage/auction.

Seeing as it’s not YOUR insurance company, the whole concept simply doesn’t apply. They are more or less responsible to you for any damage they (via their client) caused to you (as long as it was due to their negligence).

ETA: Insurance companies are profit-oriented. Their goal is to pay as little as possible. If you are their customer, you want them to pay YOU fairly, but not someone who isn’t a customer. If the OP doesn’t think the settlement is fair, he has the right to seek a better resolution.

11

Agree with this. An insurer is obligated by contract and statute law to pay the full amount of the claim–but if they can convince you that you should agree to a sum that is lower than what the claim actually is, then as far as all parties (including you, since you signed the agreement) are concerned, the matter is settled.

Remember that the magic word is “offer.” They’ve made you an offer. You can choose to accept it or not. If you don’t accept it, you can counter-offer, and this is what you may wish to explore before you go to small claims court, a lawyer etc. You have a reasonable estimate; this is your weapon. Insurers deal every day with people who don’t have estimates and who think their 1982 beater is worth $10K. Part of what every insurer has to do is to guard against taking these folks at their word and paying the claim based on their opinion. This insurer will be no different. But you know what your car is worth and you have proof of what it would cost to fix (in SDMB terms, you have cites). I’d suggest calling the adjuster, making him or her aware of your estimate, faxing it to them if necessary, and seeing what he or she says. You may be surprised at what happens.

Or you may not, at which point you may wish to look further into small claims, etc. But see if you can negotiate first–this will definitely be the cheapest option.

12

Ivn1188, I’ve explained to you why they pay as little as possible. Premiums are high enough.
I don’t care if they have a contract with you or not, they aren’t going to pay more than the car is worth to fix it. If it is a total that’s where the obligation ends. Actual cash value.
Yes, there is always the option to obtain legal counsel, but this is not a high-dollar claim. You’d end up losing money.
And they do want to pay the other party fairly too. That’s a potential custmer, you know.

13

Just filling in some gaps (man I hate coming into these threads late).

NADA for your car is $1,600 (about). Actual value may be less if it’s a dog, more if it’s cherry.

Value of your car = what you could sell it for, not what you’ve got into it, not what it means to you. Based on the appearance, mileage and documentation you have, how much would YOU pay someone for the car if you were thinking about buying it?

Loss Of Use: If your car is not drivable, you are owed a rental car until a settlement offer is made. I’m not sure about Oregon, but sometimes you don’t have to actually rent the car to be owed loss of use. This is some extra cash you can ask for.

“I say that regardless of the “worth” of the car, it’s up to them to fix what they fucked.” Yeah…No. You are owed the market value of the car or the cost of the repair, whichever is less. Periodissimo muchacho.

“since it sat there with the door tweaked it’s also gotten very moist in there, since this is the PNW and it RAINS A LOT, so it’s smelling fusty too!” You have a duty to mitigate damage to your car. Should have tarped off the door. The water damage was controllable by you. Your problem.

No. When the estimate approaches 60-75% of the value of the car, some insurance companies will start thinking “Nevermind, it’s a total. Just pay 100% of the value and take the car.” Fairly common misconception. As has been stated before, YOU ARE OWED 100% OF THE FAIR MARKET VALUE OF THE CAR not a penny more, and never more than the cost to repair it unless it’s declared a total.

Options? Like **evlkitty **said, do your reasearch, find out the fair value of the car, show your work and have a CIVIL discussion with the adjuster. Give them a chance to make it right. If they insist on $750, they must show their work. Have them fax or mail their valuation report.

If you honestly still think they’re being unreasonable, here’s the dirty tricks:
-Contact the OregonInsurance commissioner’s office 503-947-7980 and file a complaint (a very useful threat, by the way. Costs the insurance company a LOT of paperwork and time and if used as a threat it might make more sense to ‘buy your silence.’ so to speak. I would like to point out however, that as an adjuster, any complaints filed against MY handling have usually earned a response from the dept of Insurance to the consumer ammounting to: “take a chill pill, Inigo’s been doing right by you.”
-Advise the insurer that you are rejecting their offer and that you will be suing their client directly. Remember, their client is the one who did the damage and who is ultimately responsible for paying for it. The insurance company is just the checkbook. This is also a good threat. You see, if you take the case to court and are awarded significantly more than they are offering, then they have essentially put their client at risk. Had they been fair in the beginning, you would not have had to sue the client. THAT means their CLIENT would have the opportunity to sue their own insurer for bad faith handling of the claim.
-As a last resort: Dedicate your life to the study of…wait, no. Don’t do that.

14

Litigation is a waste of time. No attorney will take your case on a contingency because there’s no personal injury and if you represent yourself, you’ll have hired a bad lawyer and they’ll crush you with paper.

They might offer you a little more if you hold out. As above do your research on the value of your car. Some companies will negotiate within a small range on total losses and some do not. As long as they’re not paying storage charges on your car sitting somewhere they don’t care if you ever take their offer.

15

Say you busted a lamp at the antique store, and that the repair bill (hiring a professional to piece the lamp back together, smooth it, paint it, etc.) is $1,000. Say the lamp itself wasn’t really that unique or old, and is actually worth $5(maybe it had a pricetag of $10 in the store, but the antique shop down the street is selling it for $5).

Are you going to fork over $1,000 for the repair bill , or are you just going to give them $5 to get a new lamp? Insurance companies work the same way.

16

Thanks for the info, guys–believe me, I have TRIED to have a civil conversation with the adjuster, but the guy is a stone prick. He completely ignored my emails and voicemails for a month and then after I talked to his supervisor he finally got back to me–came right out of the chute with “your car is shit, we owe you nothing, fuck you, take it or leave it, BITCH” attitude. I continued to be civil, he is NOT. I really don’t want to talk to that guy again if I can help it.

I think I will go the insurance commissioner route–I told the guy the day I reported the damage that the car isn’t driveable without the side mirror, then when he finally contacted me and I told him I was NOT happy about it taking a month and a half and not having my car available to me he said “well, it was YOUR choice not to drive it” as though I could just drive an unsafe, illegal car all over the place. Seriously, the guy is a dick.

The work I’ve done on the car is all solid improvement–I don’t just repair, I replace and upgrade whenever possible. The only body damage to the car is on the doors–half of which was just done by the garbage truck, and there’s a tweak in the front (plastic) bumper which is fixable/replaceable. It’s not the cherriest car on the road, but it’s a solid runner with some good mechanical upgrades. We’re talking new tranny, upgraded performance clutch, exhaust, electrical system has been gone through and rewired where necessary, ignition system pretty much replaced (starter, alternator, ignition modules,) ECM replaced, fuel system replaced, new front end, upgraded brakes all round (everything, calipers, rotors, drums/pads in the back, wheel cylinders, master cylinder, the lot.) Shoot, the damned wheels and tires I put on it about 10K miles ago cost more than they’re offering! It has the standard GM paint delamination on the hood, but every damned GM car from that era has that, and it’s primed and sealed–as I say, I do appearance work last. Based on what I’ve done and with a motivated buyer I think I could get fifteen hundred for it without a big problem. J-body cars are pretty much the only American car the tuner kids like to play with, there’s a pretty substantial group of enthusiasts out there who like these cars.

I also think the small claims route is valid–shoot, these suckers owe me a rental car for six weeks and that ain’t cheap! Yes, I do have another vehicle but I prefer not to drive it as a rule since it runs on propane (which is about 75 cents a gallon higher than gas right now) and gets 8 mpg to the Cavalier’s 21-24. Driving it’s been breaking my back, I can tell you that for free!

I just wish this wasn’t such a headache, I have plenty of problems without all this shit on top of it all…

I really, REALLY appreciate your help, and any further insight is welcome!

17

A closer analogy is that the lamp has a $1000 price tag, I bust it and it’s gonna cost $800 to fix it, but I say that I only think it’s worth five bucks, take it or leave it, because I can buy another lamp at Wal-Mart for that much. And one lamp is exactly equal to any other lamp, right? Since I don’t care that it’s an antique, nobody else should, either, right? How does one prove the worth of something old and odd–by selling it, correct? However, I’ve just made it so the antique dealer has NO chance of selling that lamp to a motivated buyer.

The insurance people are not taking into account the substantial improvements I’ve made to the vehicle. They also aren’t reimbursing me for loss of use of the vehicle, either, which is six weeks worth of considerable.

18

The principle of indemnity is to put you back in the position you were in prior to the loss. However, when you have property that’s damaged to the extent that it costs more to repair than its value you end up in this situation. This is the closest they can get. You can’t win. Take the money and move on.

They don’t owe you a rental car since you have an alternate auto. Maybe you could reasonably ask for the difference between gas and propane but it wouldn’t amount to much. Anyway the most time they would allow would be a few days after they made their offer.

Your car might be worth about 1200 if it was pristine. You won’t be able to prove to the court that their offer is unreasonable. The insurance commissioner hears complaints like this every week as do the insurers. Unless there’s real evidence of bad faith that’s not going to go any where.

If I were you I’d be searching the junk yards for a door. Or taking the money and selling what parts you can off your car yourself maybe.

19

I agree with much of what has been said by other posters. Your analogy of the antique lamp is not accurate. the at fault party owes the market value of the lamp/car. If you disagree with the amount and can prove it is worth more, but they won’t listen to you, then you should take them to small claims court. The court will review your evidence versus the evidence of the insurance company and decide how much your car is worth.

Also, you should have gotten a rental car from the beginning and then you probably would have gotten a quicker response from the adjuster since every day that goes by is more money spent.

20

Even if you’ve made significant improvements to the car, they don’t matter unless they affect the market value. And you bear the burden of establishing that. So if you go the small claims route, be prepared to show how the specific improvements you’ve made affect the market value in your area – in other words, how do similarly upgraded cars sell? Bear in mind that most of these improvements will be negative-value-added (e.g. a $500 clutch upgrade may only add $100 to the market value.) The only number that matters is the resale value. If you spent $2000 turning a $1000 car into a $1500 car, you are only entitled to $1500.

IANAL, etc.