The car in question: 1987 Mazda 323 manual hatchback with 231K miles. So it’s got some wear and tear on it already.
The problem: FtGKid2 has been driving it lately. He was worried that it was heating up a bit so he stopped and checked the coolant and added some oil. It burns oil and he probably hasn’t been keeping it filled.
He takes off down the freeway and after a few miles the engine stops. He coasts to the side, there’s a little bit of smoke coming from under the hood. I get a call, etc.
Anyway, the first thing I noticed when I lifted the hood was that there was no oil fill cap. He forgot to put it back on. Checking the oil levels shows nada on the stick. So I figure the oil went out the fill hole and that also accounts for the smoke.
Got it towed home. I backed it down the driveway in gear and the engine seemed to turn.
My plan is to fill it up with oil, get a new cap and … ?
What should I do, not do? What to look for? Etc.
Note that this is a really old car. I’m not paying hundreds of bucks for any repairs. I’ve been DIYing to keep this thing running for quite a while. But if it turns out it’s gone, I’m calling one of the “I buy junk cars.” guys. OTOH, if it’s still drivable for another 6+ months, that’d be fine.
I had a car do this to me once - I filled it up again, and it started and I had it for another couple of years. Can’t’ say if yours will or won’t, but mine did. I am SO not a mechanic. So I can’t really help you except for the anecdote.
It’s a standard gimmick to run an engine with no oil after having primed it with Slick 50 or another superlubricant; everyone is amazed that it just chugs away, hour after hour, and sometimes dismantles to show no unusual wear.
The dirty little secret there is that the Slick 50 probably had little to do with it. Engines can run with little or no oil for a time, under no or moderate load, and exhibit no critical wear. This is especially true if they’re well broken in and thus have no extremely tight tolerances around bearings, etc.
I’d do an oil change, possibly drop the pan and look for a serious amount of metal in the pan (or just fish in the drained oil with a magnet), juice it back up, slap Kid2 a couple of times, and see how the car runs.
If the car really was run without oil until the engine died, it may be toast. You won’t make things worse by filling it with oil and trying to start/drive it. Instead of an oil change (there’s not much in it anyway, is there?) you could pull the drain plug and kinda flush the engine by pouring a couple of quarts of oil through the engine (used oil would work if you have some). Then, change the filter, fill it up, and see what happens.
What makes you think it’s going to seize, if it runs fine(-ish) for the first hour? If a bearing is spun or other permanent damage is done, it should be evident in the first few minutes of operation.
If the oil light did not come on (??? assume it works?) then there was some oil pressure.
Worst case, engine is seized. It turns, so it is not.
If the motor ran very hot due to lack of enough oil, and it was not sythetic oil, it could be turning oil to sludge and clogging / constricting the oil feed channels.
If the motor ran dry or starved for oil, parts could wear. That just means the engine dies sooner rather than later; crappier compression, burn oil faster, poor gas mileage, etc.
I had an Audi that died after 7 years because they did not use synthetic the first few years (factory spec). The oil sludged and constricted the oil feed, so there was enough back pressure that the oil light did not come on, but the engine was starved. After it was off warranty I got the engine oil flushed. This cleaned out the main oil lines, and now when I let off the acelerator, the oil light came on. Audi, of course, refused to accept any blame. theory was that the worst wear was the bearing races for the crankshaft, but that would have been a leap of faith - spend thousands fo dollars, tear open the engine, replace all the crankshaft bearings, and hope everything ran well for the next few years…
Oh well. Impress upon Kid2 that oil makes engines work, and no engine means public transportation for him. Then keep running the thing until it stops working. If you feel lucky, try a lube flush engine clean but that might bring on more problems than it solves.
If there were little bits of metal, for sure change the oil filter…
Without opening up the engine and taking a look it’s going to be difficult to say how much damage was done. No matter what, the oil wasn’t completely gone. There was still some oil coating the parts and providing some lubrication. I would drain it before filling it, which will get out any burned oil gunk that resulted from overheating and will also give you an idea of exactly how much oil leaked out of it. If you drain the oil and nothing at all comes out that’s a lot worse than draining it and having a quart or two come out.
I will agree with beowulff that it will probably burn more oil now, but maybe not. It all depends on how much the rings were damaged and how much the cylinder walls got scored from the lack of lubrication. There might have been enough oil left to prevent too much damage, and since it already leaks oil you may not even know the difference. Or it may lose significantly more oil now. The easiest way to find out is to fill it up with oil and see how it does.
I disagree with beowulff’s idea that the engine will seize soon. If it hasn’t seized by now it’s probably not going to.
FWIW, Mrs. Geek stopped once to have the oil filled in her minivan when she was about an hour and a half away from home. The oil light came on when she was close to home. I took a look at it and found the oil filler cap sitting on the wheel well inside the engine compartment. I don’t know how it survived the trip without falling off but it apparently stayed where the gas station attendant left it. The van ran fine for years after that, with no noticeable damage at all.
I doubt you blew out all the oil. Just top the thing off and make a note of how much oil it takes. I’m guessing it’ll only be a quart or two, in which case there’s nothing to be worried about.
Echoing what others have said, drain it, change the filter, and refill it.
See how it does- if it burns more oil than before, start using a oil weight that’s heavier- like say… 10w-40 or 15w-40 instead of 5w-30. That’ll remedy some of the oil burning and possibly quiet down some engine noise from wear, at the expense of fuel economy.
I drove a Mazda 3 over 300 miles with the oil cap off. (checked oil in Hood River, forgot to put cap back on, drove to Medford)
During the drive I didn’t notice anything, no oil pressure light, not even a whiff of burning oil. The next morning when I went out to the car there was a huge puddle underneath it, which was when I realized I hadn’t put the cap back on. The whole engine compartment was covered with oil. Luckily there was a Mazda dealer nearby, so I had it towed there. The service advisor said it was a close to having no oil as he’d seen, but there wasn’t any damage to the engine. They changed the filter, filled it up and I was on my way.
That was more than 3 years ago and the car still runs great.
It probably wasn’t run completely out of oil, but the fact that the engine stopped is not a good sign.
The first damage would be to the rod bearings and the piston rings. If you hear an increase in knocking noise or a rod slapping the engine is on it’s last legs. The main crank bearings may have lost some of their life too.
If I wanted to keep the car I would tear it down and replace all bearings. But the OP says it is an old car that they don’t want to spend a lot of money on.
I would be prepared for engine failure and use it accordingly.
I once rebuilt a VW bug engine with all new parts. It drove for about 5 miles on just the Lubriplate engine assemble grease. When I tore it back down the rod bearing were almost melted out. Repeat engine build and taped a big sign on the steering wheel; "DID YOU PUT THE OIL IN?
Oops. It was hard to see with a dim flashlight by the side of the freeway at night. I thought the dipstick was dry. But it turns out the oil level is fine. (I even found the oil filler cap wedged next to the battery.)
But the problem is coolant. It’s leaking somewhere around the water pump. Ugh. I’ve looked at a YouTube video of a guy changing it (plus I have the manual). The real issue is it involves removing the timing belt to get to the pump.
But at least it’s running enough so I can get it in and out of the garage or take it to a shop if need be.
Anyway …
Sorry about not getting the diagnosis right. I really appreciate all the people responding so quickly.
The new question is: What’s a reasonable price for replacing a water pump on a 323?
The actual water pump should run less than $50. Not sure how much labor would run, but you said you’ve been DIY’ing it. Here is a video of a water pump replacement on a 1988 323, so you can see if it’s something you’d be willing to tackle.
Unless the timing belt is fairly new I would replace that while you are in there. It’s fairly inexpensive and you are already taking it apart to get to the water pump so there really isn’t much more labor involved.
The water pump and timing belt together should be less than $100 (I haven’t priced them and prices in your area may vary). If a shop does the labor you are probably looking at about $300 in labor costs, maybe a bit more or less depending on your area.
My charge would be 400 for water pump and timing belt. I normally recommend replacing the front crankshaft and camshaft oil seals while in there, which would be an additional 90, as opposed to 280 to do them by themselves later.
Thanks for the info on pricing folks. I had noted that the timing belt and pump were both under $30 each. So I guess I’ll be doing it myself. This car is definitely not worth spending $300+ bucks on.
I’ve done things like brakes and alternators before, but the thing with this one is the timing belt. Making sure everything stays in the same position, etc.
There are some small things that might/could be replaced while I’m in there but I’m not sure it’s worth it for a car this close to the end of its practical life.
I bought this car new in '87 for ~$7k. I have been spending ~$100 a year on average to keep it going. The economics of keeping a car this long is fairly interesting. Just ignore how it looks, okay?
When I was a kid they used to have what they called a ‘car blowup’ every year on the first day of pheasant hunting season as a fundraiser for some group (can’t remember which). What that entailed was that they would jack the back of the car up and put it on blocks (or take the drive shaft off) and drain all the oil and water out and sell tickets where people would write down their guess as to how long it would run. Then they would start the car and throw a brick on the gas pedal. Some of those cars ran a long time before they would die (they didn’t usually actually ‘blow up’ so much as just sort of sputter and die).
I’ve never heard this advice given before. Is it generally applicable? Like, could I put 10W40 in my 2002 Saturn SL which gets great gas mileage but burns a lot of oil? How much fuel economy “expense” are we talking about? How much “remedy”?
Thicker oil can help oil burning. How much varies depending on how worn the engine is, but I’ve seen a change from 10w-40 to 20w-50 cut it in half. The mileage loss was maybe 1-2 mpg from a 2.3 liter Vega engine (I burned 10 quarts of oil on a 2500 mile trip in that car on 10w-40).
There is one oil additive I have used with good to great results and has been recommended by Click and Clack. It’s called Restore (brand) Engine Restorer. It really worked well in couple of beaters I used to have. Just Google restore engine restorer for lots of hits and reviews.
I’d try one step up on the oil weight or a can of Engine Restorer if the Saturn’s got a lot of miles on it.
