Hi all. I own my father’s old 5 spd manual Luxury sedan, 87 acura legend. We JUST got a new clutch put in one month ago. It was only miles away from completely failing. My father HATES spending money on cars and doesn’t understand car maintanence. He paid 700 dollars and change for the new clutch and labor. I have been completely happy with it until today. I drove a friend home, the car performed as it usually does. After I dropped him off, I started back home. I was stopped at a stop light with the car in neutral. The light turned green, I pushed in the clutch and pushed the shift knob into first. But it did not slip into first gear easily. I had to push unnaturally hard. Something seemed to be in the way. It made a clanking noise when it got passed whatever that was. It did this with every gear. You know how sometimes you try to put the car into reverse but the clutch isnt all the way in? You hear that awful grinding noise. Well, now, if I have the clutch in all they way and I try to pull it down into reverse, I can feel the grinding. I don’t force it to go into reverse, it just wouldn’t seem right.
I don’t drive the car much. To school and back, and on the weekends, with a little extra thrown in, but nothing much at all. My commute to school is not long at all. Just a couple miles. I could not have done anything that horrible to my clutch in such a little time frame. In fact, I am much nicer with my clutch than I was before I had it replaced. I just want to know what is wrong and what caused it. I am assuming this is the mechanic’s fault. I had this car worked on earlier this summer by the same company. They didn’t put some cap on the oil pan back on right, or something to that effect, and oil leaked all over. They were really embarrassed when we brought it back in and fixed it for free. I am hoping the same happens here. But of course, putting a cap on something is much easier than fixing the moving parts of a manual transmission.
Any information would be very helpful!
I had an 84 Jetta that did the same thing. Turned out to be bad linkages and not the clutch. Take it the mechanic who put the clutch and have him check it. You could also take to a shop that specializes in transmissions in order to get a second opinion.
Yeah, obviously something is wrong with the clutch. What? I don’t know. However if the clutch is new and was installed a month ago then it will be a simple warrenty job. In other words, no matter how you treat the clutch it should never be breaking just one month after installation. Take it back and get it fixed, you should not be charged.
Could it be a problem with the synchros? I mean, maybe they arent making contact before the dog teeth. That would explain the grinding noise. I would understand if they just got worn out. But this just happened! I mean, there were no problems at all, and then BAM, it is really messed up. Why would I have problems in all gears? I mean, each collar has it’s own synchronizer in it, right? (I’m asking cuz I don’t know anything bout cars, plz help). So I guess the only way to test this theory of mine, would be to drive it and double clutch it, but I’m not that good of a driver, so I won’t. But anyway, any input? If it is the synchronizers, how much am I looking at in cost?
Thanks for the help
The symptoms you describe indicate pretty clearly that the clutch is not fully disengaging when you press the pedal. Something between the pedal and the clutch clearly needs to be adjusted/repaired. I have to emphasize, perhaps unfortunately in your case, that this is almost positively NOT a problem with the clutch itself.
I don’t have direct experience with Acura, but in the case of most Japanese made/designed cars of that era to this day, there is probably no mechanical clutch “linkage.” Rather, the clutch pedal uses a hydraulic system very similar to your brakes. There is a clutch “master” cylinder with a reservoir filled with brake fluid and a “slave” cylinder located outside the bellhousing that pushes the arm that carries the throwout bearing. Between the two is a steel hydraulic line, similar (actually identical) to a brake line. I think that your problem will be found somewhere between the pedal and the piston of the slave cylinder.
I had an '86 Chevy Nova (pronounced “TOY-OH-TAH”) that shit a clutch master cylinder about every two or three years. I tried the rebuild kits, but they didn’t work that well and the difference between its cost and that of a whole new cylinder wasn’t that much, so I used to pop a new one in fairly often. (Got to where I could do it in about 20 minutes, even in the semi-dark.)
Look under the Acura’s hood, smack against the firewall, about where the clutch pedal would be, and you’ll probably see a smaller version of your brake master cylinder (single reservoir, as opposed to the brake cylinder’s twin reservoirs). Pop off the cap and see if it’s full of fluid. If it’s empty or nearly so, there’s your problem.
It sounds as though you may have a slow leak, and you might get by temporarily by just filling it. You won’t notice an instant improvement, but the system will gradually “bleed” itself free of air, and it’ll get better. In the long run, though, either learn how to diagnose and repair this type of hydraulic system or find y’self a good mechanic.
I can think of two things that could cause your problem.
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The throwout bearing in your Acura is part of the clutch slave cylinder assembly. This should have been changed with the clutch. It may not have been bled propery and the clutch is not fully disengaging with the clutch pedal depressed. This will wear out the clutch in no time if this is the problem. Try pumping the clutch pedal (the same as pumping your brakes) between each shift and see if the problem goes away. If it does, that is your problem. Also check the clutch master cylinder. If it is low, add some brake fluid and see if that helps. It is located just below and outboard of the brake master cylinder, it won’t have a power booster either.
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The shifter is not bolted tightly to the transmission. Your car has a ball and socket shifter, if it is not tight, it makes shifting difficult. If the shifter feels looser that is was prior to the clutch replacement, this is your problem.
Do not drive the car far in this condition. The noise you hear is gears grinding against other gears and sychros. The transmission will not last long. Take it back to the shop that replaced the clutch and have it looked at soon. Replacing the transmission will cost a lot more than $700.
Hi all, I just checked the clutch fluid, and yes it was all there. I removed the plastic “piston” looked at it and put it back in. I was a bit dissapointed, because I figured that would be the easy fix. I got in my car anyway. Started it up, and…it works normally again… I don’t know if I’m happy or not. That’s really weird. Any ideas? It may be fixed for now, but I dont like driving a car that COULD break down at any moment.
Thanks
There’s the clutch, and then there’s the clutch.
There are many different components in the entire clutch system. In conversation, the word “clutch” is used to refer to whatever portion of the system is pertinent at the time, or to the operation of the system. There is no one part or group of parts that is exclusively and consistently called “the clutch.”
In terms of repair, replacing the clutch (what I call the “clutch mechanism”) means replacing the clutch disc, clutch cover/pressure plate, release/throwout bearing, and pilot bushing/bearing if applicable (this list applies to the great majority of cars–there are a few exceptions, notably some VW products). This is surely what was done for 700 bucks.
[I am assuming that the above items were part of the repair, and that the below items were not.]
What I call the “operating system” of the clutch includes the pedal and whatever relays its motion to the clutch mechanism. In the Acura, this would be the pedal, clutch master and slave cylinders and the piping between them, and the release lever in the bellhousing. These parts are not included in replacing a clutch.
As mentioned above, the problem described is almost certainly failure of the clutch to release. While it could be due to a faulty part that was replaced in the clutch job, that is very unlikely. It’s a pretty good bet that the cause is a faulty cylinder.
So, what should you do?
As mentioned above, don’t drive the car. Doing so is very hard on the transmission. A tow is a lot less expensive than a transmission overhaul. Even if the problem turns out to be with the work that was done, the shop is only responsible for fixing what they charged you for. They are not responsible for your trying to drive an obviously malfunctioning car and abusing the transmission in the process.
Get the car to the shop that did the clutch repair. If it’s a warranty situation, they’ll be happy to take care of it. They will not be happy to (and are not required to) reimburse someone else to take care of it.
Understand that the odds are that the problem is not related to the previous repair and will not be covered under warranty. “They replaced the clutch” or “they fixed the clutch” does not mean they replaced every single item in the clutch system. It’s unfortunate the the word “clutch” is not more precise, but that’s the way it is. The shop should be able to explain the situation to your satisfaction.
As mentioned above, you might be able to temporarily restore function and save a tow by topping up the clutch fluid. The clutch hydraulic system uses brake fluid.
*%&$# cross-posting.
Most likely it is a faulty cylinder. They sometimes go back and forth between working and not, especially in cold weather. In this case, it would appear that it’s leaking internally (“bypassing”) rather than leaking externally (which would lose fluid).
Gary T, yes! And nicely described!
kgriffey79, yup, you have a bad cylinder, and in my experience it’s usually the master cylinder. As Gary T says, they “sometimes go back and forth… especially in cold weather.” This is because the rubber seals on the cylinder piston wear and age, and cold weather makes 'em stiff and slower to conform to the cylinder walls. The result is the “bypass” mentioned above. Oh, and the “plastic piston” you mentioned isn’t. My Nova had a plastic float that bobbed around in the brake fluid in the master cylinder; I’m damned if I know what it was for. (Any ideas, Gary T?}
Get thee to a mechanic! Try the one that put the clutch in; he may cut you some slack, although I can’t see how he’s obligated in any way. In any case, make sure you explain the symptoms and that you suspect a hydraulics problem.
Good luck!
Ummm…guys? I just want to add one thing.
Several times when I was a younger lass and was an auto mechanic, I saw people bring in cars where the clutch did not fully disengage, and they had the same symptoms as the OP describes. Typically, this was a blown master cylinder or slave cylinder (although typically, the spring would “suck the pedal to the floor” when that happened, especially on stupid FIATs).
But twice, it was:
- Floor mat bunched-up behind the pedal.
- Carpeting bunched-up behind the pedal.
So…just in case, and I know it sounds silly - check that nothing is keeping the clutch pedal from full movement too.
Anthracite – Excellent, I couldnt believe this story my Dad told me. His wife thought the clutch was going south on her car so she took it in. Ten minutes later the mechanic comes out and says the car is fixed. Reason?, You guessed it, bunched up floor mat under pedal. Hah!! My Dad even took it for a test drive before she took it in and he didnt catch it either.
Tbone and Gary’s answers are excellent; Anthracite’s suggestion is a great one as well.
If the trouble happens again, here’s a little trick that’ll allow you to easily get the car into gear, so you can move the car into a safe spot to wait for a tow.
Hold the brake firmly.
Shut the engine off.
Move the shifter into Reverse (or First; whatever you require).
Re-start the engine.
As you normally would, step on the gas and raise the clutch pedal to move the car.