I have a 2000 Volkswagen Jetta. Recently, I can start hearing some occasional rattling noises from the back of the car, but otherwise I don’t notice any differences in its handling. I figure that probably whatever thingy that is holding the muffler and the exhaust pipe in place must have come loose. I took it to the shop this morning, and the machanic claimed that there is a rattling noise because a chunk of the rear suspension spring is missing and quoted me an obscene amount of money for the repair. I politely declined it for the time being, and here I am turning to the teeming millions for a second opinion. Lossing a chunk of the spring sounds like a fairly catastrophic failure that would be immediately noticeable, and I’ve never heard of that before. Does this sound plausible, or are they full of shit?
yes, springs can break. The 2001-2002 Taurus had a problem with this.
and I doubt anyone here can give you a “second opinion” since we can’t see your car.
IANAM, **Waffle Decider, **but play one in the newspaper and for friends and family because I have a fairly moderate knowledge of cars.
A couple things you can do in this situation:
– The exhaust rattle is pretty easy to diagnose, even from the interwebs. Does it rattle when it’s not moving but running? That would be an exhaust rattle. The spring would only make noise when you’re moving.
– WHILE THE ENGINE IS STILL COLD, AND BEFORE IT IS TURNED ON, grab the tailpipe. Does it move more than you’d expect? More than your other car? More than some random car in the parking lot?
– Now, spring diagnoses are harder. But if you’re not sure about the garage, while you’re there, ask them to SHOW you what they’re talking about. It’s perfectly acceptable for you to say “Cripes, that’s alot of money. I’d like to see what you mean.” My mechanics usually have photos ready to show me in these situations.
If there’s a mechanic who gives you a hard time about that? Ask for the keys back and run for the exit. Hell, when I move somewhere new, I take cars to mechanics and make up additional problems just to see if they’re honest.
Best of luck,
JK
Why do people who don’t know anything mechanical always assume the professional is trying to screw them? People: Find a shop you can depend on and give them your business.
The spring story seems entirely likely. The mechanic should have shown you the spring in comparison to the other unbroken spring. The springs often break at the very bottom or top. This makes the rest of the spring look normal. If you look at the good side, you can often see the difference or measure it. The vehicle is 10 years old and this is a very likely diagnosis. Springs are best done in pairs so you should be replacing both sides.
For me, it’s because I know nothing about cars, and an unscrupulous mechanic could screw me over royally. I feel just as cautious about plumbers, electricians, dentists, doctors and Chemlawn…anyone who knows more than me and is selling me something - especially something that could lead to repeat business - is automatically suspect until I have several experiences with them to reassure myself they’re honest. And to earn that trust, I have to verify what they’re telling me with outside, independent, not financially invested people who know more than me.
Of course. Now how do I figure out who I can depend on? Reviews can be faked. Friends’ recommendations are based on interactions with them, not me, so if I look like a sucker and they don’t, someone could play nice with them but screw me. The only way I can come to “depend on” someone is by educating myself first. Like, by asking for opinions on a message board from people who aren’t trying to sell me something.
OP - yeah, wiggle the cold tailpipe. If it’s a loose or broken bracket, it will move readily (says the chick whose muffler was wiped off on a speedbump because the clamp on one of the bands holding it on was too loose.)
Why cant you just confirm if it is the exhaust pipe or not?
It runs along the floor of the vehicle, just get on your back, slide under the car, and look along the metal piping until you see a break. There will be a lot of rust spots sure but if it is rattling the way you describe, then there should be a visible break.
If there isnt, then reach up and give the bugger a good shake. If you can easily move it, and knock it of something, then the mountings are worn, which could cause the noise described.
On the mechanics report, nothing seems untoward about it. I assume he is talking about the suspension coil springs? I have seen these break, and where a leaf spring would just crack, bits can go missing from coil springs. For the noise you describe, it could easily be coil springs. Nothing about this screams bullshit to me. (of course, I never heard the price…)
Thanks for the responses so far. Consider me educated about coil springs. I thought any damages to it might present themselves as much bigger problems, but it sounds like this may not necessarily be so.
Are the muffler and tailpipe supposed to be bolted on solid, or are they supposed to have a little bit of ‘free play’? It looks like I can easily wiggle them around for about an inch. Is that normal?
While I appreciate that there are many honest and hard working mechanics, there are also some bad eggs out there, and you can’t deny that this profession does not exactly have a sterling reputation on integrity. It will be naive to not be at least somewhat sceptical and look for multiple opinions and independent confirmations.
An inch is a bit much, but it’s not so much IF it moves but HOW it moves. Does it move like it’s attached to the frame of the car or does it move like it’s going to fall off if you keep moving it? IOW if it took some effort and you though “Well, I guess this could be it” it’s probably not it." If the muffler was loose, when you moved it, it wouldn’t have much resistance and you’d say “Yup, that’s it” If you jiggle it, does it make a similar sound to what you’ve been hearing while you drive?
Do you have another car you try this on? As someone else said, maybe next time you’re at work or the mall, try (lightly) kicking someone’s exhaust pipe to see how much it moves. Though I would do it on a new car, so you know it’s in good condition.
Of course, it could still be a broken exhaust hangar, but just further up the line somewhere.
yes. the exhaust hangs from the chassis using rubber isolators. it’ll move around.
now, re-reading your OP, about your rattle. Does this rattle occur when you roll over bumps in the pavement? If so, that’s more often suspension-related (but not always.) Exhaust rattles tend to be tied to engine RPM, you can hear them if the engine is running at a certain speed.
Of course, you have the option of learning something about cars. IMO it’s a much better option than just assuming that every wrench out there is salivating at the chance to drain your wallet.
Right, and I do, every time something goes wrong with mine.
Auto repair professional here.
If it is a broken spring I would expect to see the car, when parked on level ground with the steering wheels pointed straight ahead, to not sit quite level. If this is the case, you do in fact have a suspension problem. Since I can’t see your car from here, I can’t tell you if it is a spring problem, a shock/strut problem, a bushing problem, a rust issue, or if you hit and bent something.
Find a parking lot with speed bumps. Drive over them slowly. Does the noise appear when the front end goes over the bump, or when the rear end goes over the bumps?
Exhaust is rubber mounted, depending on what the issue with it is, it might rattle while revving the engine slight while parked. Or it could be a problem that when driving sometimes the exhaust hits the body and causes a noise.
Do this: get a flashlight and look at the exhaust from front to rear on the car Does the muffler or tailpipe have scrape marks where it looks like it hit something? does it hang level, or does it droop in the middle? It should be level. Take something and whack the muffler ( a piece of a 2X4 will work) do you just hear a thunk, or do you hear loose rattly noises also? If there is more than one muffler do this for each. Finally start the engine and listen along the length of the underside of the car. Do you hear any exhaust escaping in the middle of the car? Then go back to the tailpipe, smack it from side to side with your fist. Hear anything like a rattle?
For OG’s sake, believe me, you don’t look any more like a sucker than any of the other 10 people the shop saw today. If they treated your friends well, and honestly, they will do the same to you.
People, do yourselves a favor. Most likely your car is your second biggest investment of your life. Protect it. Find an honest shop and use them. That shop might be a dealership, or it might be an independent, but in all likely hood it won’t be a chain shop. Use them every time. Do all of your oil changes there. Do all of your services there. Become a regular. Trust me, this will pay off sooner or later.
Yeah you might pay $10 more for the oil change, but you are getting quality parts, and quality oil. The real pay off is when your car breaks down at 5:30 on a Friday night and you call panic stricken and they say, “No problem let’s get it towed in I’ll wait for you, and give you a ride home.” (and yes I have done exactly this at both dealerships and independent shops)
With Rick’s blessing, I’d suggest either whacking the muffler the second time with the 2x4, or if you must use your fist, do that part of the test first, before the part that involves running the engine.
Of course, now that I’m re-reading that, I’m not sure why he mentioned it twice. Rick, did you purposely put that part in twice or was that an editing error?
Whack the muffler with the 2X4 then go to the tailpipe and hit it with your fist from side to side. Why your fist? If the tailpipe is chrome a 2X4 might leave marks. Anyway unless the car has been on the highway, it won’t be very warm at all.
Thanks, guys. Based on your responses, I accept that the problem seems more likely than not to be suspension rather than exhaust related. I gave the muffler some good ol’ whacks, and it didn’t seem to make any rattling noises. OTOH, the rattle only happens sometimes while I’m driving over bumps. I was also able to reproduce it by pushing down on the trunk. However, I have looked very carefully, but I just couldn’t see any one side sitting lower than the other. Also, the shop very clearly told me that it is the right rear spring that is broken, but the noise is definitely coming from the rear left side (which, coincidentally, is also the side with the muffler). I didn’t crawl directly under the car, but from what I can glean from looking around the wheels and from the back, the springs on both sides look exactly the same to me (I admit that not the entire spring is visible from my vantage point, however, and I may not know specifically what to look for).
In any event, I’ll probably get this taken care of next week. Thanks!