Car Starter Problem? Please Help!

I drive a 93 Pontiac Grand Am V6 Automatic, and lately, I have been having trouble starting the car. I turn the key and it will spin and spin and spin but never “catch”. Then I wait maybe 5 minutes and fires right up.

I have had it at my mechanics’ severeal times but they say they cannot find anything wrong, but they do not believe it is the starter. They have the computer which analyzes the engine, but they say nothing shows up.

Last night I was stuck in my supermarket parking lot for about an hour before it finally caught and I could come home, but the mechanic says he can’t find anything and until it “fails” they won’t have any idea of what to fix, but he doesn’t think it’s the starter. I’m going out of town in a couple of weeks (about a 300 mile trip), and I have a feeling I’m gonna be stuck on some lonely highway in the middle of the night.

I have taken my car to these guys for years, and they have always been honest with me and I have no reason to doubt them now, but damn! I’ve never heard of just having to wait until something completely breaks down before fixing it!

Also, Tim (the mechanic) said they tried all day today to reproduce the problem, but it always started right up for them.

What do y’all think?

Thanks

Q

The starter might be fine, but the starter solenoid malfunctioning. The solenoid is the part of the starter that engages the gear that turns the flywheel. The solenoid is a cylindrical piece that attaches to and is parallel with the starter. They are a decent DIY item, but most of the time, for sheer aggrivation, it’s easier to replace the whole starter. Often you have to take the whole starter out anyway. The bendix, or spring loaded gear on the nose of the starter, can also fail, and while this is also available as a repair item it’s still easier to put in a new starter.

Another (and very unpretty) possibility is that you’ve lost teeth on the flywheel. If this is the case nothing short of replacing the flywheel will permanently fix the problem, but if there are times when the car starts fine after sitting, it doesn’t sound like this problem.

Good luck! The computer, by the way, will not diagnose a starter fault, as a general rule. You might want to find a different shop.

b.

Does the starter kick in but the motor doesn’t turn over? If so you have some broken teeth on your fly wheel. When it stops on that spot there is nothing dor the starter to catch.

Agree with Billy Rubin about the solenoid, but it could also be the starter drive, also known as a “Bendix” by the old-timers. This is the part that actually engages the teeth of the flywheel. If it’s not extending, you get a really annoying whining/whirring noise.

Like the solenoid, the drive can be replaced but you’d be better off replacing the whole starter. (Usually you can pick up a rebuilt unit for less than $50.00)

I am not anywhere close to being a mechanic but how about the fuel line? Is it a carborator or fuel injection? Could be a clog? Just a thought.

I used to have a similar problem on a much, much older car. I replaced the solenoid and went through a few starters before I found out that the spark plugs weren’t gapped properly. Again its just a thought. If I were you, I would listen to someone/anyone else before I took auto mechanic advice from me.

Hence, my response reads

hehe!

Anyway, yeah, still, a rebuilt starter can be the best investment. Just looked at Autozone and they have one for 39 bucks, an additional 15 bucks for the solenoid, and you’re in like flint. (the new starter comes with a new bendix, by the way, Baron)

Good luck, again!

b.

We need a noise. Is it a whirrr? a grind? a klackity klak? A chitty-chitty-bang-bang? Describe it as best you can. Does it sound like it is turning over like it always turned over, but fails to fire up? The starter wouldn’t sound like that, so it could be spark or fuel related. Does it kind of fire up, but sound like it’s not completely running right? I’m hoping all you hear is a whirrrrrr, then I’ll say starter, but I’d feel more comfortable with more detail.

By the way, NYR brings up an interesting point: when you say “spins and spins” do you mena the starter turns but the engine doesn’t? (this is what I, perhaps incorrectly, assumed) or do you mean the engine turns but doesn’t start? That being the case, a bad fuel delivery or ignition system would be suspect.

b.

As previous posts have alluded, we need to define “spin.”

If by spin the OP means crank, the sound would be what I usually describe as “ruh-ruh-ruh-ruh.” It may be rapid, but there will be a rhythm to it. An observer could verify that the engine is turning over by seeing the belt(s) and pulleys rotating. If this is the case, the starter is working and the problem is likely in the area of fuel/ignition/electronic engine control (the car’s “computer” system). Sometimes it’s simply not possible to diagnose this type of intermittent no-start without catching it in the act and testing while it is malfunctioning.

If by spin the OP means the starter motor whirrs but does not engage the engine, the sound would be a steady whizzing/whirring, somewhat like an electric drill. The engine would not rotate–the belt(s) and pulleys would be motionless. If this is the case, it’s almost certainly the starter. While worn or missing ring gear teeth can result in the same sort of whirring, it would be very unlikely that it would then start on a later attempt. Diagnosis could be effected by observing the symptom, or by careful and accurate communication between the customer and the mechanic.

Nowadays, replacing a portion of the starter (bendix/drive, solenoid, brushes, etc.) is almost always false economy. If it has a starter problem, get a complete rebuilt unit and be done with it.

The motor does turn over. FYI, y’all: I just picked up the car and they had installed a new fuel filter.

Gary T: It’s not making a whirring noise or a “drill noise”. It’s legitimately trying to start itself. It’s just getting there sometimes

Thanks for the responses

Quasi

If its turning over alright then the starter is working well, isn’t it? How is the battery? Did they tighten the cables on it when they connected it after putting in the fuel filter? Cause usually I like to unplug it when working around gas.

Ah. Thanks for the clarification.

If you’ve just changed filters and are sure it’s getting fuel, then plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, ignition module in more or less that order. A 93 might have an in-tank fuel pump, they fail, and sometimes also work intermittently. A mech should be able to connect a gauge to the schrader valve on your car(or inline with the carb if it doesn’t have one) to confirm fuel pump operation. Even with pressure, if this is an injected engine (and I’m not too familiar with that, but it seems as if it might be a throttle body injector) the injector/s may be functioning erratically, which points to replacement.

I know this sounds like a lot of stuff that could be wrong, but most of these items are really part of normal maintenance and should be done regularly anyway.

b.

Get a can of spray starting fluid and spray it in the air intake. If it still won’t start it’s most likely a spark problem. If it starts and runs for a few seconds and then quits it’s a fuel problem. Starting fluid will usually work on any engine with a hint of spark.

I had a 94 Buick that did the same thing. I traded it in before I found out what the problem was.

Billy R., I think this–I just picked up the car and they had installed a new fuel filter.–means today. The OP indicates the symptom has been occurring for a while. Apparently they found, or suspected, the fuel filter was the cause.

I second the starting fluid test. The fact that the engine itself turns means that it is almost certainly not the starter, solenoid, or battery. Either the ignition is not working, or it is not getting fuel.

Does the car always run properly when it finally starts? No sudden stalling on the freeway? One possiblity that comes to mind on older cars (note: I own a Dodge Dart, so my idea of an older car may be a bit different from what some other people consider old) is that the ignition is set up to feed the spark plugs a bit more juice when starting. During normal operation, the electricity going to the coil would run from one terminal on the ignition switch through a resistor and then to the coil. But when starting, it would run from another terminal on the ignition switch directly to the coil instead. If the ignition switch is failing, it could produce the symptoms you describe. Usually, I have seen the opposite problem (runs until you release the ignition key), but the reverse is certainly possible. However, I am not sure if a '93 car would still use this design.

Good luck. Intermittant electrical problems are a complete pain to diagnose. There is frequently no possible test that can uncover them if the problem doesn’t show itself, although sometimes an experienced mechanic can know if a car is prone to a particular problem.

Yeah, I got that. I also know a lot of shops will shotgun replace suspect parts without real knowledge of the cause of a problem. I’ve been working on cars for a long time, and I’ve never seen a car not start because of a fuel filter, but then run fine. Much more commonly the car will start with a partially clogged filter and then stall as the filter fails to flow enough fuel. I posted what I did because I doubt the problem was solved- hopefully, it was, but we’ll have to wait and see. Whatever the case, a 93 anything will certainly benefit from a new filter!!

b.

Yep. Never a problem when it does finally start. Do y’all remember a Car Talk puzzler that had to with the fact that when a woman went to the grocery store to get vanilla ice cream the car would often not start right away for her, but when she got chocolate, no problem?

Well the answer had to do with something called vapor lock, I believe. When she went after the vanilla the car had time to get into vapor lock mode, but when she got just the chocolate (which was closer, I guess) it would not have locked up and she was able to start the car. (Or maybe it was the other way around? It’s been a while since I heard that.:))

Yeah, I know: It’s a stretch, but that’s what I was wondering until the other night when I sat there for nearly an hour trying and trying to start the car without either running down the battery or flooding it.

Anyway: So far, so good. The fuel filter and labor only cost me 40 bucks, which I gladly paid. I just hope it solved the problem!

Thanks to all of you

Quasi

:smiley: I am amazed that I was able to help solve the mystery. OK I really didn’t help but I did suggest the fuel line. I guess all that money I wasted in that car finally paid some dividends.