Last night I drove to the petrol station, filled my petrol tank about 1/3 full, and then drove off without reattaching the petrol cap and leaving the panel that covers the petrol cap ajar.
Today I went outside to try and start up my car, and it wouldn’t start, just gave out very slow “ra-ra-ra-ra” sounds, but did not kick over.
When I checked the car, I noticed the protective panel for the petrol cap was ajar, and my petrol cap was missing. Initially I thought “Damn, someone’s cyphoned out my fuel, that’s why my car won’t start”. But after ringing the petrol station I visited last night, the guy there told me a petrol cap had been handed in to them. Seems I drove off last night from the station without it.
Anyways…
Last night it rained quite heavily, and my car was parked out in the open, with no petrol cap, and the protective panel was ajar. Could water have gotten in to my fuel tank, and hence my car won’t start? If so, what should I do?
I really doubt it was the water and I don’t think that much could have gotten in. If there was a significant amount of water in there, the car would have at least started at first.
I’m curious, have you put the cap back on and tried starting the car? The lack of pressure from the missing cap might have something to do with it, even though you already drove without it. If it’s not that. I’m really surprised that the car wouldn’t start with the fuel that was already in the lines regardless of water or any other contaminants.
I hope someone didn’t decide to introduce a foreign substance into your open gas tank.:eek:
Ya know, the whole slow “ra-ra-ra-ra” thing sure sounds like a dead battery.
Try jumpstarting or push-starting it. If it’s a serviceable battery, you might just need to add some distilled water to it. (not ALL the way to the top!) If jumpstarting doesn’t work, then it’s probably not the battery.
If I understand correctly, when you turn the key to the start position you hear the engine cranking slowly, what I usually describe as a rhythmic “ruh-ruh-ruh” sound. I can think of no relationship between that symptom and the open fuel filler neck. The slow cranking does indeed sound like a weak battery, and it will very likely start with jumper cables.
It’s most likely an old tired battery that needs to be replaced. However, there are other possibilities. Have the battery and related items tested to pinpoint the cause.
Put a bottle of fuel system drier in the gas tank to take care of any rainwater that may have gotten in there. The best-known brand in the U.S. is “Heet,” but I don’t know if that brand is sold in Oz. Essentially, it’s methanol.
You didn’t say how new your car is, but my 2003 Honda has a sticker on the cap that says to the effect that “If ya don’t turn the cap until it clicks at least three times, the car may not run”. So if the cap was missing, I assume that my car won’t run at all…
The current (2001-present) Hyundai Elantra has the same problem… not putting on the gas cap completely (or at all) allows air into the fuel line and will cause the check engine light to come on and possibly make the engine flood when you try starting it…
Dutchboy, you and Chefguy are both incorrect about the necessity of the gas cap. Car that meet OBDII requirements monitor the evaporative emission control system to make sure that gas fumes are not escaping into the air. If the gas cap is left loose, or off, the engine management computer will detect this and trip a check engine light*. This is not due to air in the fuel lines (if this happened the car would not start)
The system is there to prevent gas fumes (Hydrocarbons) from getting into the air, and causing smog.
*Some cars may display a message “check gas cap” the first time a fault is detected, and trip the check engine light the second time
It’s true that if the battery were dead, the car would not turn over (crank) at all. But the symptom described in the OP–very slow “ra-ra-ra-ra” sounds–seems to say that the car is turning over SLOWLY. And that could certainly be the battery, so it’s not true that “it’s clearly not the battery.” Batteries can be weak without being completely dead.
That is something that can keep it from starting if it’s cranking at normal speed. But from the OP, that doesn’t seem to be what we’re dealing with.
Ah, yes, i didnt see the “very slow” part. Ignore my previous post.
To add something relevant. If you get the car started and doesnt continue to run, then look toward your alternator. There is likely a reason the battery is low.
::: sigh:::
The fuel pick up is at the lowest point in the tank. The gas cap is the highest point. For air to get into the fuel lines you have to run the car out of gas. No likely in this case as the OP stated that they left the cap off in a gas station the night before.
The only way for leaving the gas cap off to cause a no start, from air in the fuel lines, would be if removal of the gas cap caused a disruption in the fabric of space and time. This would then cause the law of gravity to be repealed inside the gas tank every time the cap was removed. This would cause the gas to float up from the bottom of the tank and allow air into the fuel line. So as long as the law of gravity works, and fuel pickups are placed at the lowest point in the gas tank, leaving the gas cap off won’t cause a no start due to air in the fuel lines.
I’m in full agreement with Gary T that the OP’s description sounds like a classic battery problem.
When talking about a car not starting, it’s critical to specify whether the engine is cranking normally or not. If the engine cranks normally (rhythmic ruh-ruh-ruh sound, several “ruhs” per second), it’s a fuel, ignition, or engine mechanical problem. Concerns about the battery, starter, and related items are irrelevant, since normal cranking demonstrates that those systems are working well.
If the engine doesn’t crank, or cranks slowly, then battery, starter, and related items are suspect. Fuel and ignition problems do not cause this. While it’s not impossible there is also a fuel or ignition problem, such questions are moot and irrelevant until the engine cranks normally.
For what it’s worth: the term “turn over” is a synonym for “crank”–the starter making the engine rotate. The typical dialogue is:
Motorist: “My car won’t start.”
Mechanic: “But does it turn over?”
I’ve noticed that some folks misuse the term, saying things like “the starter’s working, but it doesn’t turn over.” The correct thing to say is, “the starter’s working/it cranks/it turns over, but it doesn’t start.”
Since I was the first to mention the absense of the cap as a possibility I feel I must clarify. It’s not that this would cause air in the fuel lines, it’s that there would be no air pressure in the fuel system. I am no expert, but in all fuel-injected cars gas not only has to leave the tank and go to the engine, but the unused gas from the engine has to get back to the tank. I don’t know all the details, but I believe the lack of pressure might affect this. Besides, it’s an easy enough thing to try and you should always try the most simple possibilities first.
I also feel the need to clarify that I was the first to pick up on the possible battery problem.
voltaire you are correct that fuel injection requires fuel under pressure (about 40 to 50 PSI for the cars I teach on) you are 100% incorrect that about the tanks being pressurized.* The pressure is developed by the electric fuel pump(s) located either in the bottom of the tank or external to the tank.
Pressurizing the fuel tank with air, could work, however there would be major problems with this approach. First off it would result in higher evaporative emissions, secondly in an accident a punctured tank spraying gas under pressure is considered a Bozo no-no.
*With this said, the evaporative diagnostic cycle for some cars will pressurize the tank to a very slight pressure (way less than 1 PSI) for a short period of time to detect leaks
Oh and to clarify adding water to a weak (discharged) battery and not then charging the battery it will only make it more discharged, as you will be diluting the electrolyte. This is generally considered not helpful.
I knew that and probably should have been more detailed. But if it was in need of water, filling it and giving it a quick jumpstart would be simple enough.
I should point out that I drive a 1983 Toyota Corolla. I had the battery and starter motor replaced 2 months ago with brand spankin’ new ones.
I have tried starting my car a few times since the initial problem was noticed, and the car does not slowly ‘ra-ra-ra’ any more, but now it just has very fast ‘tic-tic-tic-tic-tic’ sounds coming from underneath the hood. Seems as though the starter motor is firing, but not doing anything.
And seeing as I have had to work the last couple of days, I haven’t had time to venture back down to the service station to pick up my petrol cap to allow for re-attachment.
There seems to be plenty of power coming out of the battery, but I am getting a friend over this week to see if jump starting makes any difference.
The very fast ‘tic-tic-tic-tic’ sound, that would be the starter motor firing, right?
No. The ra-ra-ra is the starter cranking the engine. The tic-tic-tic is the starter solenoid trying, unsuccessfully, to run the starter. Almost certainly either your battery is weak and getting weaker, or there’s a poor connection somewhere along the battery cables. Being two months old, your battery is probably not shot, but it will likely need to be charged.
What to do? Carefully inspect all battery cable connections (at the battery terminals, engine block, starter, etc.) for any sign of corrosion or looseness. Rectify as needed (clean, tighten, and/or replace).
Test the battery. If its rest voltage is a couple tenths of a volt (or more) below 12.6, charge it with an external charger (NOT the car’s alternator). Charge slowly for least strees to the battery.
If the symptoms remain after doing the above, further testing will be needed (battery load test, starting system voltage drop test, etc.).
When you reach a point in the above where you’re not prepared to proceed, have it towed to a repair shop.
