And just to forestall the inevitable…
Yes, I’ve seen some of the footage from Hitler’s Last Days, if you’ve ever seen ANYTHING on The History Channel, you’ve seen it. It’s of Der Furher going out to congratulate the boys defending Berlin before he heads to his bunker. And he looks like hell. And I thought, “Damn, he looks like crap. But that’s one sick son of a bitch.” Which makes me a bad person, I guess, but there it is.
I hope that all my fellow Americans here who are foaming at the mouth about how inexcusable it is to express any compassion for such a brutal bloodthirsty tyrannical dictator as Saddam Hussein will bear in mind the role we Americans played in enabling and supporting his brutal bloodthirsty tyrannical dictatorship.
We gave him encouragement, money, weapons (including many of the chemical weapons that we now complain it was so awful of him to use), and cheerfully put up with his bloodthirsty tyranny until it began to look as though he’d be hostile to us.
But I bet if we were old and broken-down we’d still expect people to feel compassion for us, huh? No, I’m not saying that our support for Hussein’s brutal regime makes us morally equivalent to Hussein. I’m just saying it makes us partly complicit in many of his terrible crimes.
If we want to have the luxury of forbidding compassion for evil tyrants, we should first cover our own asses by making sure we’re not helping them out in their evil tyranny.
Maybe it’s time to take a look at whether we’ve learned any lessons from this. (In fact, I’m thinking of starting a GD thread “Which current US-backed regime will become the next Saddam Hussein/bin Laden?” It’ll have to wait till I get back from Kerala, though.)
Umm… I feel kinda disgusted at all you people kicking that Cardinal in the teeth. All of you. Every last one of you. But maybe you’re not too current on Christian doctrine. Part of it boils down to “Love everybody”. Not “Love everybody you already like”, not “Love your friends and family”. Everybody.
So am I to understand it that you’re pitting a member of the Church for following one of the more difficult tenets of any faith (IMHO)? I mean, think about it. He pities his enemy because he’s trying to have love for his enemy. You should all get a fucking award for stomping someone for making statements based on what he believes.
. . . One of the reasons I’m not a Christian. The Cardinal may be obligated to “love everyone.”
Me, I 'as me standards.
Sqube:
and…
Are you saying it’s bad to bash the Cardinal for saying what he believes, but it’s good to bash those of us who criticize the Cardinal for saying what we believe? 
That’s what I’m saying.
I’m with Diogenes The Cynic here. What the Cardinal believes is noble and humane. What you believe is bloodthirsty and base. I can’t believe that people are still posting rants about revenge if they’ve read Orwell’s essay ‘Revenge isSour’ that was linked to near the beginning of this thread. If you haven’t read it yet do so and see how you feel.
All humans have a capacity for good or for evil and no one is purely one or the other. Sadaam Hussein may have done some very evil things and hurt and ruined many people’s lives. These acts are disgusting - no one’s arguing with that but he’s still someone’s son, someone’s father, brother etc. and as such it is completely understandable to feel compassion for him in this capacity. If you look at him as a monster, it’s also understandable to want to punish him with the utmost severity, but the fact is he’s human - he’s not a monster.
One of the most fightening and reprehensible comments I have ever read on the SDMB was posted earlier (I’m sorry I can’t remember who posted it). The phrase ‘human garbage’ was used. I can only hope that this person is young and immature and will grow to change their views. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HUMAN GARBAGE! The existence of ‘human garbage’ is what the worst and most deluded Nazis would have had people believe in. I’m glad to say that I’m a better person for disagreeing with this completely.
May I also add that I am heartened by the amount of sane people on the boards who have defended the Cardinal here. 
I’m just pissed cause I wound up defending the Roman Catholic Church. I’ll lose serious Evil Points for that.
Jesus’s Compassion on Saddam & his ilk…
Matthew 18:
6. But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
I believe that would be your definition of justice. I do not believe there can be any justice without mercy and compassion.
Now, that said, and the Cardinal was not really doing anything wrong, I think he was wrong about showing a video of people checking his teeth being particularly degrading.
Yeah but Friar Ted - he didn’t say he’d be the one who’d go and do it. There’s a difference between thinking someone deserves to die and actually killing them. Ultimately no matter how pedantic you may get it would be like trying to jam an extremely square peg into a very round hole to try to convince us that Jesus agreed with and promoted bloodthirsty revenge.
BTW I feel I should add that I am an agnostic with Christian sympathies. I’m not sure whether I would agree that Jesus was divine but he did have some pretty sensible things to say…
Luke 6:36,37
Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
“Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.”
Matthew 6:14
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matthew 18:21-35
Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?”
Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
"Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
"The servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.’
"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
"Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.”
Romans 12:14
Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.
Romans 12:17-21
Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"says the Lord. On the contrary:
"If your enemy is hungry, feed him;
if he is thirsty, give him something to drink.
In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
I can’t quote it exactly, but…“And Earthly mercy shows nearest to God’s when mercy seasons justice…”
Mercy is for us, not him. That’s what seperates decent people from people like Hussein. There’s a humane standard that has to be adhered to and he’s certainly not being treated the way he treated his enemies. It’s all about not descending to his level. The sad fact is that he deserves a taste of his own medicine, but I bet he knows he’ll never get it.
How the fuck do you know what I believe?
FTR, since I’m against capital punishment, I can’t (in good conscience) support Saddam’s execution.
I never called for Saddam’s blood - I just said “Fuck Saddam.”
I can’t object to the Cardinal expressing Christian sympathy for Saddam. IANA Christian, but it seems the expression of sympathy in in line with Christian doctrine.
However, I do object to the Cardinal using the speech to bash the U.S. for showing the video. At that point, the Cardinal’s speech moved away from a laudable expression of Christian doctrinal sympathy into the realm of politics.
The Cardinal chose to express his sympathy for a man who caused so much misery for so many innocent people and glossed over the fact that showing this image allowed those who suffered at Saddam’s hands to stop fearing his return to power.
My interpretation of the speech is that the Cardinal devalued the victims of Saddam in order to throw an easy rhetorical cheap shot at the U.S. Devaluing the victims seems to be in line with some recent actions of the Vatican, which was the reason for my original rant.
Wahhhhhhhh. Poor widdle Amewica. Always getting picked on by those mean old Cardinals. :rolleyes:
[hijack]
GoHeels - You have a message for you at this ATMB thread.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?postid=4365201#post4365201
Just thought you’d like to know.
[/hijack]
I’m Catholic, mass goer, confession, rosaty, the whole nine yards and this Cardinal makes me sick!!!
As some have said it was more an anit-US ting than pro-Saddam, still IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
I’m Catholic, mass goer, confession, rosaty, the whole nine yards and this Cardinal makes me sick!!!
As some have said it was more an anit-US ting than pro-Saddam, still IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
I’m Catholic, i go to mass, I get confession, pray the rosaty…the whole nine yards and this Cardinal makes me sick!!!
As some have said it was more an anit-US ting than pro-Saddam, still IT MAKES ME SICK!!!
AT LEAST HE IS NOT AN OFFICIAL REPRESENTATIVE OF ANYTHING, JUST HIMSLEF.