Mother, 84 (going on 85) is suffering from COPD, rheumatism, and mental declihe.
Trying to figure out a way to pay for in-home care or assisted living.
They have too much in assets to qualify for Veterans benefits.
If I put their IRA in a trust, would that put it out of the way insofar as the Veterans benefits are concerned? And allow them to get her extended care paid for? My only other option at this point is to completely separate her account from his, then do a pay-down to get Medicaid to cover the cost.
This, for certain, and specifically, the OP will want a lawyer who is knowledgeable in this area. I’ve read far too many stories (here and elsewhere), about families who try to “divest” an elder’s assets and savings, through gifts or trusts, to avoid paying for very expensive ongoing care, and it never seems to end well.
I don’t know specifically about the VA, but my understanding is that Medicaid (which pays for long-term care for those who cannot afford to pay) looks back something like five years, to see if money or assets have been moved to other people.
Yes lawyer. Before you do anything.
There are Elder care firms who specialize. Pay attention to the reviews.
In-home care is incredibly expensive. I have a CNA at home. I’ve in essence completely redone her house with what I pay her.
I love her, she’s worth every penny and has saved me more than once. She lives here fulltime.
You can find just day-care. It’s according to if it’s just a person or family member or if they have some nursing lis. or not, as to how much you have to pay them.
It ain’t cheap. I think there will soon be some government help coming with this, of course their assets will be looked at to see if they qualify for assistance.
Yep, get to that lawyer. Get their assets managed. And see where you are.
When my mother was in that state, my stepfather divided their joint accounts evenly into two separate accounts, taking a little extra for funeral expenses. He then paid the care facility from her account until nothing was left and applied for medicaid, explaining exactly what he had done. They accepted it without question. So it is possible to avoid a lawyer.
What state was this in? States set policies and regulations for Medicaid and those policies can vary widely from state to state, so a consult with a lawyer familiar with the strictures of that particular state is prudent.
Yep, they’d smell a rat instantly in Arkansas.
What about their home and other assets? In his name only?
Some states that wouldn’t matter. They’ll assume the two spouses assets are joint if she/he resided in the home as well.
Can’t much fight the government on this stuff. This is why early estate planning is a good thing.
Thanks for all the suggestions, knew I could count on the Dopers. I’m sure everything is in both their names, and Washington is a community property state, so looks like we’re going to have to lawyer up. Having said that, now I feel the need to shower
Lawyer up.
Be very careful.Do not touch their money without profession help.
There is a “lookback” period ,about 5 years. Any money that was moved from your parent’s accounts(such as gifts to children) during those years is still treated as your parent’s assets.
You need professional expert advice from specialists in elder finance.
Don’t do anything without legal advice preferably an attorney specializing in elder care and Medicare / Medicaid issues.
My pops landed in a nursing home for an 18 month stay after hip surgery. My folks had limited assets and income but were in no way indigent. This was in Florida. My sibs were planning to reverse mortgage the house to pay his bills thinking there was no way Dad would pass the Medicaid income limit. They just assumed the worst.
In fact Dads stay was largely covered by Medicaid. We only consulted the attorney when he was in the facility. She had their assets separated and a Miller Medicaid Trust set up to pay dad’s nursing home bills. Mom stayed in their home and continued to have a stable income with some of dad’s income garnished to help.
Almost miraculously he regained strength and ability to live in assisted living. That was not covered by Medicaid. The assisted living arrangements that accepted Medicaid were like adult foster homes not a good fit for my folks. But they had the funds for a a nice facility on their own once they sold their house. I suppose we could have stuck them in a lesser home and had Medicaid continue paying. But not an option really.
Same in California. Facing a similar but very complicated situation involving my elderly unstable mother and a disabled dependent adult sibling, I consulted a lawyer first, and boy was I glad I did. Found out exactly what was legal and how to do it.
What is wrong with having her spend her own money to care for herself, before expecting others to pay the tab? Why should she be allowed to protect her assets for her husband or heirs?
Well, I tell you what. My old man built up most of the assets they have. And he served in Vietnam 66 to 68 with the US Navy. He, and his spouse, are entitled to those VA benefits. Hanging on to as much of those assets as he can will also work as a cushion for him. Do you know what the allowable assets are so that his earned benefits can kick in? $2,000, excluding their primary home and one vehicle. That doesn’t leave enough to even pay their copays on their medical care. Full-time in-home care or assisted living expenses run about $6,500/month. Memory care adds about another $2,000 to that.
I asked the question in this forum to get some advice on how to proceed, not to get a lecture about what is and isn’t appropriate. They’ve paid into the system their entire adult lives, in one way or another. Why shouldn’t they get the good out of it for that?
My stepfather-in-law (my wife’s stepfather) is 84, and is in very poor health, due to a whole range of chronic issues which are not going to improve. He really needs full-time care, as his health needs are more than his wife (my mother-in-law) can really attend to, and he needs to no longer be trying to navigate their home (a townhouse, with tons of stairs) – in other words, he really should be in a skilled nursing facility.
My mother-in-law is terrified of the financial implications of him going into a nursing home, where he might be for months or years (despite his poor health, he keeps hanging in there), as she is worried that all of their savings will go into paying for that, and that there’ll be no money left for her, for any purpose, after he dies.
For months, we’ve been trying to get her to consult with an attorney who specializes in this, to figure out what does and doesn’t have to be spent down before Medicaid will kick in; unfortunately, you can only lead a horse to water, and she’s been resistant to actually seeking that kind of guidance (don’t even get me started).
Warning for @Dinsdale; this is a severe threadshit and just a chance for you to hijack a thread into your own views. Don’t do this again. OP is look for help, not your views. Very insulting post.
Given your age, it’s a decent bet the situation with your parents was quite a few years ago.
Since WAG the 1990s a LOT of legislation has been passed both federally and in many states to prevent asset shifting to induce penury so as to qualify for public assistance for old age care.
Having said that, there has also been a bit of a reverse trend that recognizes that for a married couple, impoverishing the survivor paying for care for the first to die isn’t fair to them either. And ultimately leaves the taxpayer on the hook for the second to die’s care anyhow.
So various safe harbor and 50/50 provisions are working their way into the law. Or were until substantially all legislative action everywhere was halted a few years ago in the name of obstructionist partisanship.
OP:
Punchline being: There may be a way to do what the OP wants fully legally within the system. But if that way does exist, it almost certainly will require that all the "i"s be dotted and the "t"s crossed as provided in the various safe harbor provisions. And what works for e.g. the VA may not work for e.g. state Medicaid, etc. It’s a large patchwork of separate programs with separate regulations with little overarching logic.
You need a local pro to stand any good chance of doing this right.
You should not ever put an IRA into a trust. You can make the trust a beneficiary of the IRA upon the death of the IRA owner, but the IRA itself should not be placed into a trust.
Retirement accounts. Accounts such as a 401(k), IRA, 403(b) and certain qualified annuities should not be transferred into your living trust. Doing so would require a withdrawal and likely trigger income tax.
