GAHH!! Morons! It’s water! Stop staring at it and drive! No, not 25mph, you idiot! Close to the speed limit is slow enough. You won’t melt, you won’t crash, you won’t die! It’s. Just. Rain!!! If you want to go that slow, take the goddamn El Camino! Christ, we go through this every fucking year.
Try a dusting of snow and a community of Seniors nearby, like where I work. Might as well jog, it would be just as quick.
Jim
Interestingly, when we were out visiting my in laws in Pennsylvania and some friends in New York two years ago, my SO and I drove through New Jersey, and it was the only place I felt completely comfortable driving. Make of that what you will 
I don’t if that speaks well for you or not. Most people think Jersey drivers are crazy. 
The problem I was describing exist in a portion of Ocean County where the density of Seniors is approaching Florida levels. (Including my own dear parents).
Jim
This is a blanket response to Eonwe, Fear Itself, and I guess Grelby.
Notice how it says "If you choose to drive slower than other traffic, do not drive in the “No. 1” (fast) lane. Always move to the right when another driver is close behind you and wishes to drive faster."Notice how it doesn’t add, “unless you think they want to drive too fast.” That’s very deliberate.
When I first came out to California, the languge in the seciton quoted was even more precise, as I recall. It said you needed to get over to the right even if the other cars were exceeding the speed limit. I’m sure someone complained that that was essentially condoning unlawful behavior and the language was changed.
The traffic laws and their enforcement are meant to balance two needs: safe travel and smooth traffic flow. The CHP is given a lot of leeway as to how and when to enforce these laws. Like any executive, they decide what rules need to be enforced when.
We have a rule about speeding. We have a rule about not driving slower than the other traffic in the left lane. The cops know that sometimes the whole road can be going 75mph and everyone is fine, until someone decides that no one should go any faster than 65 in lane #1. Then cars back up and the risk of accident is increased. So they get that person out of the way, and flow continues, even if everyone is going a little fast.
When the road is too crowded for people to safely drive that fast (or if the end of the month is coming and they have a mandated quota), they start hauling speeders over. The situation is ambiguous, and deliberately so. Conditions on the road are not the same 24/7.
I totally follow you scotandrsn (and Trunk as well), and I’m with you.
The problem, IMHO, is that as a driver I’m getting two messages. One, that it’s illegal to drive over the speed limit. Two, that it’s illegal to drive less than 10 miles over the speed limit (or whatever the ‘going rate’ is) in the left lane.
This can (and does) only lead to frustrated drivers on both sides of the ‘debate’, and really needs to change.
Right, raise the Left Lane speed limit up, but make it clear that the new limit will be enforced heavily in both directions. (Well, it’s an idea at least).
Jim
Wow. If you were in Ohio, the state troopers would simply pull EVERYONE in the left lane over, ticket everyone and then conduct a frivolous search of someone’s car.
Penn is the same as Ohio from what I saw. At least up on Rt 80.
When I lived in San Diego, Rt5 was stay in your lane and go as fast as traffic allows. Cops only pulled over those diving in and out of lanes.
As I had a 77 Camaro back then, I really enjoyed it.
Down towards San Ysidro there was a short highway that ran East and very straight. We use to test our cars and Motorcycles on it. Only time I ever drove 140 in my life.
Jim
As I’m from a state with not a single HOV lane on 1000 miles of interstate, I’ve never really worried about it. I just wish they’d up the limit even more, or drop it entirely, on 25 south and 40 east and west of Albuquerque. It could be done on large parts of 25 north as well, but not as easily. Albuquerque to Las Cruces or vice-versa would be much nicer if I could do 90+ legally in good weather (which is most trips, assuming there isn’t a nasty crosswind. 40 mph crosswinds for 3.5 hours of driving is not fun.)
But yeah, I’ve always hated the inherent confliction of 1. Don’t drive over the limit and 2. Don’t go so slow you are a danger especially when 1 is being violated by 10-20 MPH. (I drove from PA to MD several times, part of which was a stretch on I-70. Speed limit is 65. I often did it at 75 or so, just to keep up with traffic. Even worse was hitting the Baltimore beltway (pretty sure it wasn’t the DC, as I believe I was headed to BWI) and having to do 80 on that clusterfuck just to keep from getting run over, and this wasn’t even during rush hour.
Oh, and this seems as good a place as any to bitch about the I-70/I-81 interchange. I’ve seen lots of bad interchanges, but every part of that interchange sucks, especially the west to north. I am so glad I’ll never have to take it again.
The driver doing 65 in the fast lane is the one who’s driving like an asshole.
I’ve attempted to make my 60 mile commute without exceeding 60 mph, just for fuel economy reasons. I did it for 3 days in a row and I was more stressed after those 3 days than I have been in a long time. I stayed in the far right lane the whole time…about 40 miles of the commute is on 3 or 4 lane interstate and 20 miles on 2-lane interstate. It’s absolutely unsafe to drive slower than the flow of traffic, even if you try to stay out of the way. Traffice through New Orleans East and Slidell Louisiana flows around 75. The speed limit is 60 through New Orleans East and then goes up to 70 when you get out of the populated area…the minimum speed is 40 the whole way. It flows at 75 the whole way, even during rush hour. The cops won’t ticket anyone going under 80 in the area because traffic flows smoothly most of the time at around 75. But one asshole going 60, even in the right lane (just like an asshole going 90 in the left lane) causes a big mess.
The laws here also state that if a faster vehicle has the right of way if a slower vehicle can move a lane to the right, regardless of speed. It’s not enforced in most areas, but some highways have signs that say “Left lane for passing only” or “Slower traffic keep right”. I’ve never known of anyone to actually get a ticket for not pulling over to the right for a faster car, but I do know someone who got a ticket for passing on the right.
Yes, I’m saying the slow driver is at fault for making others drive like assholes.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. His actions – while inside the realm of what’s legal – are outside the realm of what’s accepted.
I happen to believe that people working together can establish a speed that provides an acceptable balance of convenience and safety better than some lawmaker.
You keep talking about this “personal responsibility”. It works both ways. A person is responsible for recognizing the current road conditions and responding to them. When he sees a mile of open road in front of him, and a mile of cars lined up behind him, it’s his responsibility to get out of the passing lane.
Today’s commute made me think of another way to look at the ambiguity of the situation (Thank you, Santa Ana Freeway!)
People are taking issue with the fact that law enforcement tends to look the other way when people speed on the open road. Shouldn’t each traffic law be enforced with equal rigor at all times?
If that were the case, then eveyone backed up on the freeway during rush hour should be descended upon by vigilant motorcycle cops and given a citation for tailgating.
Why don’t they do it? Because if everyone kept one or more car lengths between each car at rush hour, the backup would take up even more of the road than it already does.
So if it doesn’t make sense to enforce the tailgating law when the road is packed, does make any more sense to enforce the speeding law when the road is open?
Now, in the situation of the carpool lane, it’s different. While it is still probably the job of a slow-moving car to get out of the lane, the car behind needs to keep their pants on until the dashed line break. You can’t force someone to break the law any more than you can force someone to obey it.
Good luck using that excuse in traffic court.
I’m just having a hard time grasping the concept that my cautious driving makes you break the law. If you are an agressive and/or angry and/or in a hurry you are still just blaming others for your behavior.
Are you my big brother?
If by “Cautious driving”, you mean “retardedly slow-moving sunday driver on a freeway in which the traffic, in all lanes around me, is moving 25mph faster than me”, then yes, your driving is the problem. If each and every other person on the road who may be breaking the speed limit, but are otherwise traveling safely are impeded by you, and are forced to break stride to move around you, then there is some sort of problem.
If you’re not comfortable to move at the rate of speed of others around you, you should probably reconsider traveling on that throughway.
Sam
Let me rephrase **BMalion[b/]'s post:
“I completely missed the point of the 50 previous responses, but I feel like going in circles all over again.”
Now that makes much more sense to me, thank you for the clarification.
Jim
As always, the arbiters of Roadway Righteousness are not to be found in these threads, but instead in the police cruisers, courts, and insurance companies of this fair land.
Overwhelmingly, the people who wind up on the wrong side of these agencies are not the slow, cautious and sometimes irritating drivers who are being blasted in this thread. Instead, it’s the impatient, tailgating, speeding, weaving and reckless drivers who pay the price. Or if they are injured or killed in a crash, their relatives get to suffer as well.
If the fines, license suspensions, big insurance bills and time spent in traffic school are less of a concern than slower drivers, consider whether your priorities may be a little bit out of whack.
Absolutely. And if the accidents caused by road rage due to self righteous people who feel it’s their civic duty to keep the rest of us legal doesn’t seem like a good enough reason to move a few yards to the right, then I would suggest you consider what you feel you’re accomplishing by refusing to move. Other than your smug satisfaction, that is.
Jackmannii-
“Fines, license suspensions, big insurance bills and time spent in traffic school” aren’t much of a problem so far as I can tell. The police aren’t interested in people who are safely speeding on freeways. In fact, The only time I’ve ever seen a cop on my morning commute was to clear up an accident. In the evening they exist for unsafe driving and carpool lane jumpers.
If I find out differently I’ll come over to your way of thinking. Doubt it will happen though, because I travel at the speed of the roadway and on a road where everyone is exceeding the limits, they’d need an army and to make sure they were applying the law 100% evenly for everyone. And that’ll never happen.
Sam