Cast your vote: The Worst Person in the World

The BBQ Pit
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[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
Oh, and by the way, “There’s this president I support, and a lot of people are claiming that he’s the worst person in the world. Ha! Those exaggerating fools have lost all sense of proportion! He’s CLEARLY not the worst person in the world. Why, he might be arguably only the 2nd or 3rd worst president in US history. They are so PWNED!” seems like a weird thing to be elated about.
[/QUOTE]

If only I were saying that, why, you might have a point.

The point is that someone arguing what you’ve said above is wrong, in my view, but not crazy. I trust you can see the distinction – I believe differently, but I don’t say their belief is objectively unsupportable – I just don’t share it.

The “Bush is the worst person EVAH!!11!” business, on the other hand, is simply indefensible.

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Living or dead?

If living, I nominate a generic person: anyone who thinks it’s okay to kill someone else because their religion says so.

If dead, I nominate the sorry asshole who thought up the concept of religion in the first place.

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[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
Really? Worse?

(When you say it’s “worse”, I suspect that what you mean is something along the lines of …)
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, may be worse; and by that I do mean ‘worse’.

The damage the willfully evil does is that evil act; people die, families are destroyed, economies are demolished. Everyone is appalled.

The damage the irresponsible do damages our belief structure, our faith in our institutions, etc. But people forgive those who did not intend evil, so the problems continue.

To use your example: the old guy who drives his car into a farmers’ market cause the market to be closed down, and poor city families to have little access to affordable fresh vegetables; kids are not allowed to play on the street [meaning the sidewalk and parks], they watch tv all day and get fat and develop diabetes.

So, instead of twenty-five dead people and their heartbroken families, we have hundreds of unhealthy and ignorant children, who die early.

Who’s done more damage?

Not a great argument there, just a sloppy outline, so let’s not extend the analogy.
I’m not sure I really believe it; but the older I get, the more irresponsibility in adults offends me.

I’ve watched companies flounder, good programs die, and ‘innocent’ people get right royally fucked over because some legal adult wouldn’t do a job, or even try to get it done. Lives cast into shambles just because someone wouldn’t do the job.

Irresponsibility does a lot of damage.

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[QUOTE=MaxTheVool]
You’re coming off like a bit of a crazy person.
Again, I agree with your underlying sentiment (Bush = bad) but you are going completely off the rails here into unsupportable hyperbole, which just makes you (and, by reflection, me) look like a nutter. Not a single one? Ever? If we pore over every action Bush has taken in his entire life, we will never find a single one that is positive?
[/QUOTE]

Mr. Nutter Crazyman speaking again.
OK, Max, I’ll make plenty of room for ya…please list the accomplishments Bush has achieved to make the world a better place:

Eagerly awaiting your list.

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I wish Frank had posted to this thread. He often has something worthwhile to say.

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[QUOTE=Bricker]
If only I were saying that, why, you might have a point.

The point is that someone arguing what you’ve said above is wrong, in my view, but not crazy. I trust you can see the distinction – I believe differently, but I don’t say their belief is objectively unsupportable – I just don’t share it.

[/QUOTE]

OK, let me rephrase so that my actual, and I think non-irrelevant, point is stated with more seriousness and less jocularity. I think that the population of the SDMB, as a whole, is a generally intelligent, thoughtful, well-meaning group. We observe that a significant portion of that group has gone so completely off the rails against Bush as to say that he is “the worst person in the world EVAH”. Does that say more about that group of people, or about Bush?

Or in other words, if we must look at the dark cloud that is the Bush presidency and its impact on the US, and on the world, it seems a bit odd for you to be chortling about the silver lining which is that some number of liberals are now making statements about Bush that are truly hyperbolic, thus allowing you to mock them.

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[QUOTE=DMark]
Mr. Nutter Crazyman speaking again.
OK, Max, I’ll make plenty of room for ya…please list the accomplishments Bush has achieved to make the world a better place:
[/quote]

  1. The first things that pops into my mind concerning his presidency is this reef protection act
  2. I’ll also wager 1,000,000 to 1 that Bush has, at some point in his life, given some money to charity

After that, I’m out.

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I am. Thread over.

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About frickin’ time. Thanks for coming forward, Auto. I’ll flag your post for a mod and have someone sent over to close this…

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I think it was Laura that mentioned that they were giggling over something as they entered their “secure place” (wherever that was) together on or after September 11. (Yes, I remember that he was in flight for a while.)

She spoke about this several months later. I don’t recall the reason that it came up in an interview. I felt like I had been gobsmacked. I know that people get nervous and laugh sometimes in a time of crisis, but it’s really a stretch after the horrors of that day. It’s particularly unthinkable when you are safe and the people that you “lead” are not.

Finally, I’m surprised that Laura was ignorant enough to mention their lapse to the public.

She probably knows him better than anyone else. If you really want to know what she thinks of him, take a good look at her body language on a tape of the Coretta Scott King funeral. She cannot get far enough away from him nor close herself off to him more.

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[QUOTE=j666]
Go read El Hefe’s first post. (Thank you for that, EH)
That assessment, while not perfectly rational, is what many Bush-bashers feel. Bush’s actions have shamed the United States.
[/QUOTE]

I did read the bosses post (I would have been more impressed if he called himself El Guapo).

So, if many Bush bashers ‘feel’ this way, it makes it rational that Bush can be ranked up with folks like Little Kimmy? Because Bush has shamed America that ranks up with mass starvation and slaughter?

[QUOTE=j666]
Do you really believe GWB has not exhibited the emphasized traits?
[/QUOTE]

Whether he has or not is beside the point. The question is…is he the WORST person in the world? Is he even in the running? What arguments do you think can be used to justify Bush being the worst? Because he exhibits the traits you mentioned doesn’t make him worse unless he does so in a manner worst than anyone else in the world.

[QUOTE=j666]
Furthermore, he has exhibited at least one other trait that I consider ‘bad’ (I haven’t decided about ‘evil’): the refusal to acknowlege the consequences of his actions.
[/QUOTE]

And when Little Kimmy was starving millions of his people, was he being playful? Ok, so you think Bush is cruel. Fair enough. But do you think he’s more cruel than the others on my list? Based on what? What ‘Bush bashers’ ‘feel’? Do you have anything more tangible?

[QUOTE=j666]
He is dangerously irresponsible.
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, he probably is. But so was Kim Jong-Il, and for a much longer period of time. Is Bush MORE dangerously irresponsible? How so? And does being dangerously irresponsible make you the worst person in the world?

-XT

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[QUOTE=xtisme]
So, if many Bush bashers ‘feel’ this way, it makes it rational that Bush can be ranked up with folks like Little Kimmy?

[/quote]

Read the line you quoted.
Did you read it? Good, you can withdraw that question.

Well, not then it wasn’t. The question was not is Bush TWPITW, but whether he meets MTV’s qualification #1 for a Bad Person. The point at that post was that I was challenging a specific single point in one of MTV’s post.

You might want to read the post to which I was replying.

That he is arguably the most powerful and/or least responsible candidate.

If you like, I can go through this entire thread and quote every post that made that point. (Except the irresponsibility; I think only I brought that up.) Or, you could read them yourself.

Because Bush, being more powerful, has the greater responsibility.

Now, I do realize that you do not think Bush is the worst person in the world; but what is your point? That he is not as bad as Kim?

We have a term for that: Damning with faint praise.

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Well, the worst person in *football * is Todd Sauerbrun, if you want to believe Keith Olbermann.

Hey, it’s something.

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I saw last night where Olbermann said the worst person in the world is Marge Simpson.

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[QUOTE=j666]
Read the line you quoted.
[/QUOTE]

I have done so.

[QUOTE=j666]
Did you read it? Good, you can withdraw that question.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t particularly see the need to be honest. But whatever floats your boat.

[QUOTE=j666]
Well, not then it wasn’t. The question was not is Bush TWPITW, but whether he meets MTV’s qualification #1 for a Bad Person. The point at that post was that I was challenging a specific single point in one of MTV’s post.
[/QUOTE]

Um…the OP is ‘Cast your vote: The Worst Person in the World’. Again, I don’t see how any rational person, looking at things at least quasi-objectively, can put Bush in the top spot…or even in the top ten. YMMV.

And I read Max’s post, thanks. It should tell you something that Max is a die hard anti-Bush guy…and HE doesn’t think it’s quite rational either. Or maybe it doesn’t tell you anything, who knows?

[QUOTE=j666]
That he is arguably the most powerful and/or least responsible candidate.
[/QUOTE]

He is definitely the most powerful (no need to argue that)…but least responsible? Only, again, if you have a biased and pretty much uninformed opinion. To use the Kim Jong-Il example (but there are plenty of others…read the list I made earlier up thread and look up any of them you don’t know about): Jong-Il has caused the deaths of millions of his citizens…through starvation and lack of care. He has deliberately antagonized not only the US but pretty much pissed off every one of his neighbors…and frightened them all as well, which isn’t exactly a good thing when said neighbors are nuclear armed.

Now…if you want to make the case that starving your own citizens and making their lives hell is not irresponsible, and only foreign adventures count toward the worst person in the world, well…you can do what you like. As I said earlier, you COULD just ask for the worst national ruler who runs the most powerful country with an ‘A’ in the name, who looks vaguely chimp like and who has a ‘B’, ‘W’ and a ‘G’ in their name. And comes from Texas by way of parts east. It would be more honest…

[QUOTE=j666]
If you like, I can go through this entire thread and quote every post that made that point. (Except the irresponsibility; I think only I brought that up.) Or, you could read them yourself.
[/QUOTE]

No need to do that…this isn’t GD after all. And I’ve read all the irrational bullshit already, so no need to repeat. This being the Pit, you could just say ‘fuck you XT’ if you like.

[QUOTE=j666]
Because Bush, being more powerful, has the greater responsibility.
[/QUOTE]

And a good thing too…because if he acted like some of these animals who really ARE the worst the world would be in serious trouble I’d say. And maybe if he wasn’t constrained by the Constitution and the way our government works he WOULD be the worst.

However, being so constrained he has to settle for being mediocre wrt some of the heavy hitters out there.

[QUOTE=j666]
We have a term for that: Damning with faint praise.
[/QUOTE]

You are obviously laboring under the misunderstanding that I WANT to praise Bush, or think he’s worthy of praise somehow. This thread is about The Worst Person In the World™…not about Bush being a fuckup as president. He IS a fuckup as president…but that still doesn’t make him the worst person in the world when guys like Jong-Il, al-Bashir and Mugabe (to name a few) are running about.

-XT

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[QUOTE=xtisme]
I don’t particularly see the need to be honest.
[/QUOTE]

Choice 1: You and Bush both!
Choice 2: At last, conservatives admit what we all knew!
Choice 3: Observe the destruction wrought by a single missing comma.

Daniel

disclaimer: nothing in this post to be taken seriously, with the possible exception of this disclaimer.

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lol…yeah, it makes a huge difference. :stuck_out_tongue:

(I keep forgetting I’m a ‘conservative’…sorry).

-XT

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Originally Posted by j666
That assessment, while not perfectly rational, is what many Bush-bashers feel. Bush’s actions have shamed the United States.

Originally Posted by xtisme
So, if many Bush bashers ‘feel’ this way, it makes it rational that Bush can be ranked up with folks like Little Kimmy?
[emphasis added

You really don’t see why you should withdraw that question?
How about because I specifically said the response to Bush was not rational, but emotional?
You claim to have read the post and twice either misunderstand or misrepresent it, and you think the question is valid?

And then:
Originally Posted by j666
The question was not is Bush TWPITW, but whether he meets MTV’s qualification #1 for a Bad Person. The point at that post was that I was challenging a specific single point in one of MTV’s post.

Originally Posted by xtisme
Um…the OP is ‘Cast your vote: The Worst Person in the World’.

You can repeat the OP ad naseum; that doesn’t change that that I was addressing a specific point raised in another post. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that?

Originally Posted by xtisme
You are obviously laboring under the misunderstanding that I WANT to praise Bush, or think he’s worthy of praise somehow.

Just … what? Where did I ever indicate that I thought you supported Bush, or his policies? Are you really unfamiliar with the phrase “Damning with faint praise”? I find that very hard to believe.

While you may disagree with my opinion, your critique would bear more weight if you demonstrated the slightest understanding of it.

Furthermore, kindly do me the favour of reading my posts before you accuse me of ignorance.

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[QUOTE=j666]
How about because I specifically said the response to Bush was not rational, but emotional?
[/QUOTE]

When someone says ‘not perfectly rational’ to me this is saying that it is rational at some level…just not perfectly so. Had you clarified your position to say it’s simply not rational then there would be no confusion on my part. Work with me here.

[QUOTE=j666]
You claim to have read the post and twice either misunderstand or misrepresent it, and you think the question is valid?
[/QUOTE]

Since you have only just clarified what ‘not perfectly rational’ means to YOU, certainly. Now that you have, I can better understand your point, ehe?

[QUOTE=j666]
ou can repeat the OP ad naseum; that doesn’t change that that I was addressing a specific point raised in another post. Why do you refuse to acknowledge that?
[/QUOTE]

Because I didn’t read your post the way you obviously meant it to be read…sort of like the ‘not perfectly rational’ thingy?

[QUOTE=j666]
Just … what? Where did I ever indicate that I thought you supported Bush, or his policies? Are you really unfamiliar with the phrase “Damning with faint praise”? I find that very hard to believe.
[/QUOTE]

Again…it seems perfectly clear (to ME) that this is exactly what you are saying. Otherwise I wouldn’t have made the comment I did. There is certainly a disconnect here if I’m reading your posts and not getting out of them what you THINK I’m supposed to get out of them.

[QUOTE=j666]
While you may disagree with my opinion, your critique would bear more weight if you demonstrated the slightest understanding of it.
[/QUOTE]

To be sure.

(p.s. you should ask a Mod to fix your coding as your post is even more difficult for me to read than the normal disconnect we are faced with. This isn’t meant as a snarky comment btw)

-XT

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Usmana Bin Laden