[QUOTE=ralph124c]
What has he (Castro) accomplished? He has turned Cuba into a very poor country. QUOTE]
I’d much rather be in Cuba than many other places in Central America/the Carribean. Despite it all, Cuba has exellent medical care, and Castro’s literacy program was quite effective. There are far worse places to be than Cuba.
The canal was built by French and British companies, and owned by France and Britain, and I think a government should have an obligation to protect private property, not just take it because its owned by foreigners.
Really. From what little I’ve read, Castro was fairly loose about the socialism thing until it became obvious that he would need the support of the Soviet Union. He didn’t declare his revolution a socialist one until 1961, for example. Like Ho-Chi-Minh, he seems to have seized on socialism as a convineint tool to inspire nationalism and gain allies against colonalism.
How so?
The Cuban economy has been doing relativley well in the last few years. It was hurting during most of the 90’s because it could no longer rely on Soviet subsides. Several market reforms have been instituted, and the GDP has been growing for several years.
I’m not saying I’d want Castro as my leader, but I don’t see why he is worse then many other Central American leaders. In fact, I’d argue that he’s better then quite a few of the scummier S. American dictators
Only reason I can see why no rapprochement is that “the man” considers him a bit too smug and unrepentant. May take another conservative president to make some kind of move in that direction, ala Nixon and China, to thaw things. =D
BA
Maybe so, but that doesn’t make it worth fighting over! And even if the Egyptian government had left ownership of the canal in foreign hands, it would have had a perfect right to exercise political control over it, e.g., closing the canal as and when the government saw fit. I mean, it’s an important strategic asset and it’s on Egyptian territory!
Cuba is far from being a democracy. Raoul Castro is poised to take over when the bearded one (Fidel) finally goes to hell. So, sans elections or any input from the people of Cuba, they get another tyrant!
The second point: pre-Castro Cuba was NOT like Central America-Cuba had fine universities, and a large middle class. Castro wrecked the whole system, and forced the educated people to leave. True, Batista was corrupt, but nothing like Castro. the fact is, if you live in Cuba, you have basic medical care (of course, should you contract AIDs, you will be whisked away to a concentration camp! (American liberals don’t seem to comment upon this). You also depend upon your local CP party hack (block commander) for your ration cards…without these , you cannot legally buy food…real liberties,eh? Should you express opposition o “the willof the people” you might well be sent for “re-education”! And, you might not get your ration cards…this will force you to depend on a relative or friend.
Yeah, Cuba is great (if you like being a prisoner in a minimum-security prison).
The apologists for Castro and his ilk make me ill…talk to somebody whoescaped the “worker’sparadise”…aw heck…“viva la revolucion!” 
True. OTOH, it has a political system which would be extremely democratic – rather more so than anything we’ve got, outside New England – if the Communist Party were not in absolute control of every step of the process. From http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761569844_4/Cuba.html#s124:
As for socialism – it’s hard to know what the Cuban people are really thinking, obviously. But from what I’ve read, I think if the CP falls from power in Cuba, the results will be nothing like what happened in Eastern Europe. The people are still going to want socialism in some form, and certainly in a more democratized form.
Saying ‘Batista was corrupt’ is like saying ‘Osama is a noisy millitant’.
It’s going to suck to be the president who has to explain that, no, the fact that Fidel and Raul have gone to hell doesn’t mean that you get to go back and take over the country.
I read an article long ago in The Progressive (of all places!) that Cuba’s record on gay rights was pretty shitty-something about camps for those accused of homosexuality?
For some inexplicable reason, many of them still believe this. They don’t seem to realize the the Cubans who have been in Cuba for the last 40 years will expect to have something to say about it. Well, maybe Castro will live long enough that the only Cubans left in the States won’t want to leave.
Also, to explain to them that they’re probably not going to get back any of the property Castro expropriated from them or from their parents or grandparents.
Cuba’s just a lovely place, isn’t it? Castro’s really a great guy.
Well, let’s set the record straight.
[ul]
[li]There is no freedom of expression, association, or assembly in Cuba. To this day, people who peacefully express disagreement with the government can find themselves fined, imprisoned, or subjected to internal exile. The following are crimes in Cuba: “contempt” (desacato), “unlawful association,” “clandestine possession of printed matter,” “posing a danger,” “rebellion,” and “acts against state security.” [/li][li]There is no freedom of the press. All media is operated or controlled by the state. Alexis Castañeda Pérez de Alejo, a journalist for the newspapers Vanguardia and Huella, was sentenced to five years in prison for having made statements described as “enemy propaganda.” [/li][li]The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights has found that there is no due process or justice in the Cuban legal system. People are routinely arrested and jailed without trial, or if a trial takes place it is often a formality or show trial. [/li][li]There have been numerous extra-judicial killings of dissidents in Cuba.[/li][li]Cuban prisons are among the worst hell-holes on the planet, with routine torture, mutilation, and other atrocities carried out on the inmates. Inmates are often placed in cold, dark, damp cells and left to rot on meagre food rations. The state of Cuban prisons has been decried by human rights groups throughout the world. Inmates suffer from malnutrition, and routine outbreaks of hepatitis and tuberculosis. So if the beatings don’t kill you, disease might. Oh, and they might work you to death - prison work camps are a popular source of cheap labor in Cuba.[/li][/ul]
Here you can read the Human Rights Watch on Cuba.
The internal exile thing could use extra mention, too. It’s a very common form of punishment in any communist country. When the government runs the businesss and stores, it has the power to destroy the lives of people simply by revoking work permits. This happens in Cuba, of course. Undesirables can find that they can’t get work, lose their dwellings, etc. Such people wind up living with relatives or in neighborhoods of undesirables, where they make meagre livings on the black markets or from charity.
Now, as for Cuba’s “Excellent Health Care” - from this link:
[ul]
[li]The Cuban Government currently devotes a smaller percentage of its budget for health care than such regional countries as Jamaica, Costa Rica, and the Dominican Republic. [/li][li]Cuba has a two-tiered health care system - one system for apparachiks of the communist party and celebrities, and another for the general population. The first one is pretty good. The second, terrible.[/li][/ul]
It’s interesting that if you search around the internet, you find just tons of cites extolling the virtues of Cuba’s health care system - usually ‘progressive’ cites, of course. Of course, when leftists from the U.S. go on ‘fact finding’ missions to the socialist worker’s paradise to see the remarkable health care system, guess which one they get shown? The nice shiny one for the powerful. They don’t see the impoverished system chronically short of medicines, supplies, and even blankets.
But a while back, 18 doctors managed to get out of Cuba, and here’s what they had to say:
It strikes me as outrageous that the same people who post constant messages decrying the evil that is democratic Israel can, with a straight face, post messages saying that Fidel Castro is a pretty good guy, and Cuba a pretty good place. Perhaps Castro is lacking that one prime characteristic required for lefty hatred on the SDMB: He isn’t a Jew.
:rolleyes:
Those are the most positive things anyone’s said about Castro in this thread. Do you really think that comparing favourably to guys like Somoza or Pinochet (not to mention the triumvirate of Stalin, Hitler, and Pol Pot) counts as being “a pretty good guy”? On what planet? Do you dispute that Castro isn’t as repressive as several other Central and South American dictators, not a few of whom have been supported by the US? That’s all I’ve seen anyone here say. Well, that and that the embargo policy seems out of line with the reality of the situation. But that seems a perfectly legitimate thing to say as well. After all, China’s got a much worse record than Castro, and they weren’t under any embargo last I checked.
Real classy with the anti-semitism smear there, too.
You’re all class, Sam.
Seriously, you cannot be trying to legitimately make the argument (a darling of the right wing, yet) that opposition to Israel’s policies re: the Palestinians is necessarily and intrinsically equivalent to antisemitism. You’re not, right? Seriously?
Make that anti-Jewish. The Palestinians are a Semitic people.
Semantic nitpick. “Antisemitic” means “against Jews”, not “against Semites”. Do we need to start breaking every English word down into its component parts and scanning it for precise semantic meaning, or can we just keep speaking the language?
No, I’m not. But some of the anti-Israel rhetoric on this board has gotten extremely more radical than that. For example, “Fuck Israel”. In context of a discussion about Israel being under threat from Iranian nukes.
And you’re generalizing a particular nutjob data point into “the Left” why, again? And don’t deny that that’s what you did. I quote:
Bolding mine. Even with the limiting phrase “on the SDMB”, that’s not even close to being anything other than a broadbrush shot below the belt.
We have a total embargo on Cuba supposedly in place to punish Castro’s regime for throwing journalists and dissidents in jail, and yet the same politicians who uphold said embargo would gladly have open trade relations with China, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Myammar, and other such places. Too bad we don’t have any Miami Nigerians.