Thanks Miller. 
Given the number of known abusers and the number of victims per abuser, the chance that you know thousands of Catholics and not one of them was abused is zero. That’s the appropriate application of “statistics and probabilities.” Most likely you know dozens or hundreds of victims.
Your belief that this isn’t a systematic problem and that it only happens in other places, and the galling notion that this insistence is not “minimizing what has happened,” might be related to why the dozens or hundreds of victims of the Catholic sex-abuse ring whom you personally know do not feel that disclosing their personal history to you would be productive.
Where did I say that I know “thousands” of Catholics? But no mater how many Catholics I know, yes, it is possible that none of them were abused. You could, perhaps, say that it’s not likely that I don’t know any Catholics who have been abused, but you can’t rationally say that it’s not possible.
Where did I say it wasn’t a systemic problem? Or that it only happens in “other places”? Sadly, I think it’s happened just about everywhere. I believe I was clear that I think that the bishops who covered up, who shuffled abusers around, are as guilty as the molesters themselves. And it’s the complicity of the hierarchy that makes the issue systemic.
Please. I understand your anger, but you’re letting it drive you into the realm of weird stuff. You think I know “dozens or hundreds” of “victims of the Catholic sex-abuse ring”? Present your evidence for that statement. For how many Catholics I know (it ain’t thousands), for your claims that perhaps hundreds of them are victims of this sex-abuse ring.
We’re moving out of reality here.
One group of us is talking about what’s actually been proven to happen in the real world.
The other is talking about how people he knows couldn’t possibly be up to no good because he knows them, and because there’s a piece of paper forbidding them from doing bad things. Issued by a group of people who covered up those bad things.
Which one of us can’t deal with reality?
The thing about sexual abuse…most victims keep their mouths shut. There several reasons for this. Shame is at the top. Followed by getting pounding by the people they report the abuse to. And a very clear history of the abusers and those that protected them getting away with it.
Cardinal Law knew of many priests who were abusing kids for MANY years and did his damnedest to keep them from facing any consequences and shuffling them to unsuspecting parishes…and when it was exposed…they (the Church) reassigned him
Watch Spotlight and Mea Maxima Culpa. These should be required viewing.
The one who said that it is literally impossible that none of the people I know have been molested by a priest.
That’s just a caricature of what I’ve posted. In fact, it’s a complete misstatement. In fact, it’s bullshit.
I’ve seen them both. An excellent movie, and an excellent documentary.
And the late Bernard Law was an evil man who should have spent decades in prison.
My childhood Catholic Diocese, the priests accused:
(There’s lots of them. I know some of them, and their accusers.)
What you posted is that you seem totally unaware of why, after you’ve talked about your great experiences with lifelong Catholicism, your many priest friends, your certainty that the abuse problem doesn’t exist in your diocese, and the fact that what really needs to be discussed is how weird and angry people obsessing over a little diddling are, there just might be reasons why the abuse victims you know think it’s not worth it to tell you what’s happened to them since you will inevitably minimize or deny it.
I said absolutely none of that. Not one word. You’ve made a fanciful strawman out of my posts, and you seem personally angry at me for some reason that is not clear to me.
And some of the stuff you’re saying is, well, obviously meant to be personally insulting. I’d “inevitably minimize or deny it” if a friend told me of abuse? Of course I wouldn’t.
Just for example, please show me where I said I was certain that the abuse problem doesn’t exist in my diocese (I’m not sure if I’ve said which diocese is mine, but it’s the Diocese of Brooklyn, if that matters to you). Go ahead – I’m sure you can quote me saying that.
Do any of these names ring a bell? I’m not saying they will, but here they are:
I’m actually familar with that (quite short – I’m sure there are others) list of credibly accused offenders.
I am familiar with one name on the list. I know exactly what he was accused of, and reported to the authorities for. In fact, if memory serves me (it was a very long time ago) he was caught by the civil authorities.
As a child, I was often in the presence of that priest. I may even have been alone with him from time to time. In fact, I probably was, since I was an altar boy when he was in the parish where I grew up, and one of our duties was to help the priests prepare for Mass, which usually happed in the sacristy with nobody else present.
I do not know anyone who said that he or she was molested by that priest. I was not ever touched or anything by him.
So when
ZosterSandman said " The chance that you’ve spent your whole life among Catholics and never known anyone abused by a priest is 0. "
He was, in fact, factually correct. Unless you’d like to tell us that there is no chance at all that anyone you knew when you were an alter boy there was abused by him.
He was caught in possession of child porn, back in the days when that stuff could be bought in Times Square. And word got out – he was busted by the police, not reported by someone to the (then) bishop, where it could be hushed up.
There was, as you might imagine, lots of talk in the parish, with everyone wondering if there’d ever been anything more than porn possession. Nothing came up, not even rumors. Even among my fellow altar boys, none ever said that they were molested by him in any way.
ZS made the claim that it was not possible that I didn’t know anyone who was molested by a priest. It is, in fact, possible. I did say to ZS that he could certainly say that it wasn’t likely that I didn’t know anyone who wasn’t molested by a priest, so please, let’s not overstate or misrepresent what I said. I think that’s a pretty good summary of just a couple of posts, and is pretty sensible.
Nonetheless, it is absolutely true that I don’t know anyone who has ever said they were abused. That’s just a fact.
I haven’t said anything in this thread that isn’t true about my experience or knowledge.
Jeremiah 5:21
Seriously? OK, whatever.
I get this is the Pit, so there aren’t many applicable standards, and you and anyone else can say whatever you want.
I’ve approached this thread in the spirit of discussion. I haven’t insulted anyone, I haven’t misrepresented anything anyone said, and I haven’t said anything that isn’t true.
That doesn’t work for you? Fine, it’s the Pit, who cares.
I’m sorry if you felt insulted by a bible verse. It encourages you to open your eyes and try to see a bit further than you’ve seen before. To look beyond a narrow perspective. An insult, it is not.
I’d encourage you, and others, in this thread to look beyond a narrow perspective too. But I wouldn’t call you fools in the process.
IT’S A BIBLE VERSE. Get over yourself.
Can you speak for the priests you do know?