Huh?
I don’t think there is such a thing as an “animist/Buddhist”. Or are you talking about separate events, some involving animists and some involving Buddhists?
In any case, could you please explain what events you are talking about? When/where were the things you list done by either animists or Buddhists?
I’ve seen a lot of attempts to hijack this thread, so let me see if I can help with focus:
The topic of the thread is Catholic slave labor camps. Not Protestant camps or Cuban camps. Does anyone here seriously believe that Catholic slave labor camps would be OK if other religions were running them, too?
The topic here is, are other such camps extant and what can be done to prevent them from continuing or recurring. That asks for specific responses, not “people are bad.”
The notion has been advanced that the problem of Catholic preist/pedophiles and slave labor camps, both of which were covered up by the Roman Catholic hierarchy for years, points to a deep-seated corruption in the Catholic leadership. Once again, the notion that corruption is endemic in human instutitions doesn’t respond to the specific idea advanced. Unless you are maintaining that we should simply accept the pedophiles and the slave labor camps and merrily go on our way. Is that what you are saying?
I would add that the Catholic Church no longer has any credibility. Decades ago, people who said that Catholic preists molested children were considered whackos and mindless troublemakers and their words weren’t heeded. Now we all recognize that there is a problem. I’m sure the allegations about Catholic slave labor camps were met with disbelief at first. Now we’ve learned there’s a problem there, too.
Point is, we can no longer dismiss any allegation about Catholic wrongdoing out of hand. Whether or not there’s a cultural problem with the leadership, there’s definitely SOMETHING going on. Any allegation about Catholic wrongdoing now should be taken seriously and investigated.
Thank you, Evil Captor, that post brought some much-needed clarity.
So, would it be appropriate for the FBI to start investigating the American dioceses of the RCC in a hunt for more slave camps? Like I said, if you’ve found two, that’s not exactly the point to say, “Whew- we got 'em all!”
For that matter, would it be appropriate for the FBI to start an across-the-board investigation into all RCC dioceses in the US for child molestation, even in ones in which no charges have been filed yet? What, exactly, are the rules for dealing with a criminal conspiracy?
Since the slave labor camps have been orphanages in each case, some quiet investigations by the authorities would probably be in order. Nothing dramatic, just some interviews with people who’ve left the orphanages recently about conditions there should be enough to discover if further, more intrusive investigation is (literally) warranted.
Well, the OP may disagree, you obviously do, but when the OP talks about:
I felt it was relevant to point out that institutional abuse of children is not confined to the RCC, or individual dioceses in the RCC, thus the problem is not just not an “Irish problem” or “Australian problem.”, but also not just an RCC problem.
Now, if the OP’s intent was to piss on the RCC then obviously my posts in this thread are wasted.
Thereby setting back ecumenticism between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches by about 500 years.
Japan. First half of 20th Century. OK, so that was mostly the actions of an officially Shinto State with a large Buddhist minority, Shinto being a syncretic religion combining animism with Confucianism and other philosophies – but that really has to do with the hijack about whether these evils would happen or not in the absence of Organized Christianity, rather than with the actual points of the OP.
As to the actual OP, first, I had been under the impression these things were not “news” in the sense that they had been revealed in most places they had happened, and after the fact. That we may not have heard of it in American media until recently may just reflect our solipsistic POV on events elsewhere. Second, yes indeedy, most of the reaction has been some embarrassed coughing and throat-clearing. I have learned to expect no more from any large corporate institution.
Third, and addressing specifically the question of whether or to what extent this is a RCC problem vs. an Australian or Irish problem: The orphanage-workhouse or “home for incorrigibles” where children live in indentured servitude WAS and IS a widespread phenomenon around the world and WAS the rule once in what we now call the “developed west”, regardless of religious affiliation (Surely when Dickens has Scrooge ask “Are there not prisons and workhouses?” he did not only mean Papist institutions). HOWEVER what we would have here, is a situation wherein in countries/societies that properly did away with these practices in the “civil” sphere earlier in the late-19th/early-20th centuries(*), allowed the churches to get away with it – sometimes, like Ireland or Spain or Quebec, because of the strong influence of the Church over civil life; others like the USA/Australia out of a misguided “hands-off, don’t-ask-don’t-tell” policy where the states cared more that the church was taking the burden off their hands than about HOW it was doing so. Specially due to the hierarchical politics of the organization, the entities carrying out this within the RCC specifically, could in turn get away with it longer than congregation-accountable denominations.
(*But some, not so early.) (BTW let’s not forget the frequent collaboration of churchES and States in running “Indian/Aboriginal Schools” where the point was to erase the kids’ native culture and assimilate them)
However, Ben, I doubt that you’ll find many more of these still extant in this form in the major Western nations. I, too have read the various reports, and over the past 30 years the preferred pattern has been of a quiet phase-out, as much because of the economics and logistics of keeping it up, as because of any moral or legal consideration. This, along with the pedopriest issue, are stains on the RCC for which atonement shall be heavy and long, and the various hierarchs trying to wave it off are just pathetic (unlike the Inquisition, they can’t claim it was the Middle Ages and we didn’t know better).
However, as Evil Captor mentioned, at this point in time in the USA and Europe (and elsewhere through such groups as AI and HRW) we have the tools to figure out if and where there’s need for further inquiry or for action, without going into Ben’s idea of an open-ended “FBI hunt” specifically against the RCC – which is where he just goes over-the-top. I’m not for declaring open season on ANY group, whether justified for the sake of “the children” or of “homeland security against terror”; specially if it involves just barging in to “hunt” for anything-that-may-come-up, even if there is no complaint or probable cause.
http://us.imdb.com/Title?0318411
Bastards.
This and many other concerns, abuse etc. has led to a huge crisis in the Church over here.
My age group(early 30’s) and younger have turned away from the Church is a big way.
I find it sickening and embarrassing that it was happening in my country till so recently but the power the Church had in Ireland till recently was immense. That’s over now thanks be to god 
My mother went to school with some of the kids from the Dublin laundry and was jealous of them because she was living in abject poverty at home and thought they had it easy. How wrong she was. She was in tears looking at a documentary about it that was screened here a few years ago.
The difference here is that, unlike Castro, the RCC is by and large subject to Western jurisprudence. In the instance of the child molestation scandals, with priests being shuffled to protect the guilty, it is impossible for most people to believe that the American RCC hierarchy, at least, was ignorant of what was going on, and we’re wondering (like Ben) where the criminal conspiracy investigation is.
It also seems to be a stretch that, with two apparently very similar RCC-run child-labor camps on opposite sides of the world, nobody very high up in the RCC knew about these, either.
So, where the heck is the investigation? Is the RCC still untouchable, excepting the priests who did the actual molestations, or what?
In which case, the problem is with those people, and not with their religion. Religion merely becomes a convenient excuse for them, since no reasonable individual would conclude that their religion actually commands such actions toward the children.
And that is why it’s specious to ask,
Since religion was merely an excuse, they most probably would have done so anyway. As Neurotik pointed out, there is no lack of atheist societies which have done far worse.
Agreed.
(from http://www.rickross.com/reference/krishna/krishna22.html )
I’m not sure I understand you, bayonet1976. Are you arguing that the RCC and Cuban government are both evil, or that neither is?
Come on!
Show me ANY group of people and I’ll show you scandal.
Salve-kids: How about those mentally handicapped kids in the US in the 50’s who were given radioactive corn flakes?.
Paedophilia: You’d be surprised that married men and homosexual men are meny times more likely to do it than celibate guys.
It looks that some posts were written in the 19th century, the POWER of the Catholic Church… If the Pope could force us catholics to do his whim (I love the guy BTW) you’d be complaining and when he doesn’t you complain. But please, how many “Catholic” politicians in the US constatnly contradict catholic rules like abortion in public, where are the catholic goons breaking the legs?
Buddhists are nice guys, but it’s clear you haven’t seen them fighting for temples.
Cut the paranoia people
I wonder why non-catholics or even atheist are so keen on trying to change the Catholic Church. Can’t remember the last time Michael Jordan commented on “fake punting”.
Rodrigo… What is “fake punting”?
Try 20th century Ireland.
Regarding those “orphanages” in Australia: the “60 Minutes” expose a few years ago claimed that British children were shipped to camps in Australia (operated by the RCC). In these camps, children were forced to labor for no pay, and physical abuse was common.What I did not realize-these children NEVER weregiven Austarlian citizenship! They are (effectively) stateless persons! How COULD the Australian government EVER allowed this to happen?
Nobody asked ME but here’s my take on the meaning of the position of those who have answered OP question 2 beyong the narrow RCC focus:
(a) All these events are evil
(b) All those responsible have done evil
© Those responsible, for either doing or allowing to happen, should be brought to Justice proportionately to their involvement and not be protected from it for having done it in the name of God, or The Church, or Public Morals, or Marx, or whatever.
(d) “c” above includes whatever civil authorities (re: religions) and outside observers (re: governments) could have done something yet enabled it all by looking the other way in the case of specific religious or ideological practices
(e) OTOH affiliate organizations that would not have been involved should not be dragged down by association and the accounting should not be specifically targeted for extra severity nor be a-priori denied defense on account of whether the excuse is God, the Church, Public Morals, Marx, etc.
(f) Framing the process of seeking Justice in a context of specifically “getting” the RCC (or the Communists, or Islam, or Globalist Capitalism, or whatever) through a “hunt” actually hinders the achievement of Justice as we have to waste our time separating those interested in Justice from those simply interested in nailing a specific group. IOW we could be figuring out how to achieve the goal of having these crimes duly investigated, exposed, and punished, rather than arguing over whether someone just wants to piss on the RCC.
Fake Punting: A (American) football play with which you “show” you’re going to punt (kick the ball to your opponent) but actually play the ball trying to use surprise to your advantage.
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Try 20th century Ireland
What I meant is that the phrases and excuses and reasons are so old that they seem taken from those days (19th century).