Is the RCC trying to scapegoat gays for its priests' child molesting?

When the seemingly endless series of child molesting incidents by priests began to be exposed a number of years ago, a friend of mine predicted that the Roman Catholic Church, ever the expert on strategy and survival, would find a way to turn the blame away from themselves and onto the “intrinsic evil” (the official words of the Vatican) of homosexuality.

(Since there have been a fair number of girls molested by priests, one wonders why the same condemnation should not fall upon heterosexuality, but I digress).

One excellent example is found in commments made by Spanish Bishop Bernardo Alvarez, who found a way to scapegoat not only gays, but also those little 13-year-old sluts who apparently bring it upon themselves.

For the full article on the good Bishop’s comments see this article, but here are a few choice excerpts from his interview, given over the holidays.

*". . . in ‘La Opinión’, he said that some victims of child abuse consent to sex, and if the abuser was not careful, he could be provoked by the child.
Asked about the many cases of child abuse by Catholic priests in other countries over recent years, Bishop álvarez had said: “There could be minors who consent (to sexual abuse), and in fact, there are. There are 13-year-old minors who are perfectly in agreement, and moreover, desirous (of sex). They would even provoke unless care was taken….

The bishop, despite having drawn a link between homosexuality and the abuse of minors, said there was a clear difference, but then asked rhetorically: “Why is the abuser of minors sick and not the homosexual?”

The Church afterwards did its best to make light of his comments, insisting that the bishop was in no way trying to justify an “absolutely unacceptable phenomenon.” *

Late last year, the RCC New York Archdiocese turned out a colouring book warning children about molestation. You can see it here.

Now although such an effort to help children may seem praiseworthy, note a couple of subtle messages in this colouring book. While statistics consistently show that incestuous sexual abuse of girls (such as father-to-daughter or older-brother-to-sister) are one of the most common forms of child abuse, this is not even mentioned. And while there is ONE example of male-to-female sexual abuse (the internet picture) most of the molesters are apparently single males (no wives or girlfriends implied) who are basically creepy men looking to abuse **male children **. The message is subtle but it is clear.

As the New York Post noted in its article of December 4

Although priests are never explicitly the villains of “Being Friends, Being Safe, Being Catholic,” the female guardian angel who narrates the morality tale warns on one page that an altar boy should never remain alone in a room with any adult unless the door is open.

In fact, while the “creepy men” on the other pages are shown with evil grins actively engaged in attempted child molesting, the picture of the altar boy shows a man who may be a priest, but who is in any event standing respectfully in the open door with his back turned, waving and smiling in a friendly manner to the altar boy who is putting on a robe, safely protected by two smiling angels who are blissfully aware that the good Father (if such he is) would NEVER molest an altar boy. It is those creepy male strangers (gays?) going after little boys that are the danger.

The attempt to shift the blame to gays and homosexuality is subtle, but it is ongoing. Catholic seminaries are watching for signs of homosexuality in their priests. Booklets and comments by Bishops like Alvarez keep bringing home the message. The “intrinsic evil of homosexuality” is to blame. Both homosexuality and child molesting are instrinsically evil.

Gays are beginning to fight back. As noted in an article in Fab, the Toronto gay magazine: ". . . we prefer the original draft title (of the colouring book) Hey Monsignor! Keep it in your pants! :stuck_out_tongue:

You are laboring under two misconceptions.

First, the Chruch hs over a billion members, including an awful lot of Cradinals, Bishops, Arch-Bishops, etc. And yes, you can find someone somewhere who will support or say almost anything. The official Church stances are themselves. Likewise, “the Vatican” embraces a lot of different poeple, and some of them say things which are not neccessarily majority or even plurality view.

Second, the Church condemn homosexual behavior. Attraction is irrelevant. There has been some concern by many in the Church that because it traditionally had no problem with homosexuals acting as priests. Likewise pedophiles (hey, they’ve got to go somewhere, and the Church teaches that no man lives without hope of redemption). I’m am not sure of the current situation, but thus far no major action has been taken to try and deny them access to the preisthood pending theological and moral investigation.

LIKEWISE pedophiles??? :rolleyes: Yet another subtle link between child molesters and gays. Thanks a lot!

Could you please supply me a list of Cardinals, Bishops and Arch-Bishops who are in favour of gay marriage, for example? I would be interested in seeing names or at least an example.

Good thing you qualified the “anything” with an “almost”. I would suggest there is a pretty big gap between the two where gays and the opinions of Cardinals/Bishops is concerned.

Did you ever notice that there are no Catholic clergy posting on the SDMB? It must be because their world-view is incompatible with open and honest debate.

I didn’t think anybody still used that old chestnut to make it appear as if the RCC is anything but bigoted and intolerant where gays are concerned.

It kind of reminds me about the old joke about the diet where you can eat anything you want as long as you don’t swallow.

What if I told you I am against the PRACTICE of Catholicism, but that simple belief in Catholic doctrine is OK as long as you don’t go to Mass, pray, etc.?

Nice, logical distinction, right?

You are obviously alluding to my other thread regarding Muslims. But yes, I do feel that a Church whose response to dissent was for hundreds of years torture racks and burning people at the stake, and who supported fascists like Mussolini, Franco and innumerable other tyrants, and whose dissenting priests can be officially orsdered to silence by the Pope probably does not have a strong culture of democratic debate.

That said, I would ask you to remain on the debating topic in this thread, which is NOT why priests do or do not post on SDMB.

This is a little surprising. I would think we’d attract at least one Jesuit.

Luckily, you aren’t required to be a Catholic.

:confused:

I thought Valteron is a Jesuit. Playing “Devil’s Advocate” and all that jazz.

You mean to tell me that his rants are sincere? :dubious:

OK, let’s calm down a bit – unfortunately, it is true that there are many in the Church’s hierarchy AND laity who DO think that the sex-abuse scandal is “a gay thing”, and that if they could just purge gays from the priesthood and the seminars their troubles would be greatly diminished. Whether they’re sincere in that belief, or just latch on to it to self-justify their preconceived notion that gays are a threat, the effect is not that different; yes, there was much discussion at the time the scandal broke that this was a result of “liberalism” in admissions to the priesthood, which entirely ignored the fact that a lot of the abusers were priests ordered pre-Vat-II, supposedly under the “old ways”.

Now, if that is one of the things that leads someone to conclude Catholicism is TeH suXX0rz, well, that’s something those leaders and laypeople are going to have to be accountable for to their conscience… and eventually to a Higher Authority, if there is one, since driving people away from the Church by doing evil in its name is itself a sin, by their definition.

But like other gay people, I AM required to fight the power and wealth of the Catholic Church when they fight against the right of gays and lesbians to civil marriage, for example. They do not recognize civil marriage but will lobby the government to keep us from having it.

I AM required to fight back when the Catholic Church gets involved in their billionth (exagerating) child sexual abuse scandal and subtly tries to associate it with the “intrinsic evil” of homosexuality.

I AM required to fight back when they campaign against laws like the one in California a few years back that would have given gay couples marriage-like access to benefits, and which was defeated, largely because of RCC activism.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture./

Suggesting that homosexuality be left entirely out of a discussion of men who (at least some of them) clearly expressly identify as homosexuals and then commit sexual acts upon (disproportionately) members of the same (hence, “homo”) sex has always struck me as strange.

What is the rationale?

(a) Priests who molested young/adolescent boys/men are not really “homosexuals” but are instead to be labeled as a different species of critter (“pedophile” or “ephebophile”)? Isn’t that just semantics when the attraction to the same sex youths is, literally and semantically,“homosexual” in its nature?

(b) Okay, maybe they were “homosexuals” but their homosexuality has nothing to do with their offense?

© ???

I think some of the posters are trying to pull this debate into a trainwreck. Like a fool, I rise to the bait and answer them.

Let me simplify it. A few years ago I was debating with a Catholic Priest who said that while he had nothing against gays (they NEVER do) the Catholic Church had to think of children!

The nerve of this man, coming from a Church that has had entire dioceses sued into bankruptcy by their child abuse victims, telling a gay man that** I** was the one HE had to protect children against was more than I could bear.

That is when I said: “Look, mister, it’s not the fault of gay men if members of your clergy can’t keep their pants on around kids. Don’t try and lay this on me!”

Apparently, the RCC is still looking to make homosexuality the scapegoat for what their clergy did and is probably still doing.

BTW, I was personally sexually molested by a Catholic priest as a teenager. Nothing much, just masturbation, but it DID happen.

The fault was HIS and not the fault of homosexuality.

If you say it happened, I am willing to believe it and extend my sympathies to you and my condemnation to him.

If he had not had homosexual attractions to young men, do you think this would have occurred? Not a rhetorical question, I’m curious what you think.

There are numerous cases of priests molesting girls. Should we dwell on the heterosexual nature of their acts? Are their acts more “normal”?

Are you aware that many pedophile priests are interested in children of either sex, but that they often have more access to boys, who tend to be less protected, who are available as choir boys and altar boys.

BTW, have you ever heard of a school for girls taught by priests? Ever hear of a school for boys run by priests? Do you think maybe that makes a difference in the number of male-to-male vs. male-to-female cases? My own molestation occurred in a school run by priests.

I was taught by nuns as well, but all I ever got from them was brutality and strapping. No sex.

Required?

Required by whom?
And what exactly IS the debate here?

The RCC is/is not trying to scapegoat gays?

Which side are you taking in this debate and what evidence do you offer one way or the other?

All you’ve got so far are unfounded rantings and leaps of logic.

In answer to the OP’s question, this theory was put forward by the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith when John Paul II was pope. I’m pretty sure JP was the first pope to assert that homosexuality itself was not sinful, only actions were. Doesn’t sound too progressive, but at the time it was pretty surprising.

Anyway, that Prefect is now Pope Benedict XVI, so yeah, you could say that it is.

For most pedophiles, the gender of their victim isn’t really relevent. Most people are attracted primarily by a person’s secondary sexual characteristics: a straight man, for example, tends to like women with large breasts and shapely hips. Straight women tend to like men with broad shoulders and a strong jawline. A pedophile, on the other hand, is attracted to children specifically because they lack those secondary sexual characteristics. However, it’s a lot easier to get placed in a position of authority over children with whom you share a gender, then over children of the opposite gender, so a great many incidents of pedophilia involve same-gendered pairings. However, calling the perpetrator “homosexual” is misleading. In their adult sexual contacts, the overwhelming majority of pedophiles prefer people of the opposite gender, and have no attraction to adults of their own gender.

Ephebophilia is a different matter, and does usually correspond to normal hetero/homosexual labels.

See post no. 16 in which I partially answer your question.

But to answer it further, no, it would not have happened if he had not had an attraction to young men. I did not say “homosexual” attraction to young men, you will notice.

Why not? Because I think we both understand that a male priest and a young man are members of the same sex. For that matter, I did not specify that it was homospecies sex as well, because it was between members of the same species. I think you know the priest was not a Klingon.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that the priest and I were both Francophones. Is that relevant to you?

There was also a priest in my city who was convicted of sexual assault on an adult woman. I guess that would not have occurred if he had not been “heterosexually” attracted to women, no?

Years ago, newspapers would say that John Smith had “homosexually” assaulted Peter Jones. For some reason, they never said that John Williams had “heterosexually” assaulted Sally Chamberlain.

Today, they simply say “sexually assaulted”. If you can’t figure out that a man and a boy are members of the same sex, you may have trouble reading the newspaper article. :smiley:

What the RCC is trying to do is subtly shift the “blame” from their priests onto the “evil” of homosexuality.