Well, that mitigates the issue, if so, in terms of spiritual magnitude. But it makes forcing people to be re-baptized sillier than it would have been if their souls were actually imperiled. They’re kind of showing their hand, here, either way. Either it matters or it doesn’t. If it’s just a bureaucratic error, they should fix it down at Central and leave the poor parishioners alone.
Probably not - I’ve never been at a infant/child baptism* where there was a second priest/bishop/deacon present. And I’m certain the average layperson wouldn’t have known it was a mistake
- Which is most of the rituals - most parishes I know have them at least twice a month. Older children and adults are baptized once a year at the Easter Vigil, where there may be multiple priests/deacons present.
The FAQ from Phoenix contains this:
It is important to note that, while God instituted the sacraments for us, He is not bound by them. Though they are our surest access to grace, God can grant His grace in ways known only to Him. According to St. Thomas Aquinas, God has bound Himself to the sacraments, but He is not bound by the sacraments . This means that while we can be certain that God always works through the sacraments when they are properly conferred by the minister, God is not bound by the sacraments in that He can and does extend His grace in whatever measure and manner He wills. We can be assured that all who approached God, our Father, in good faith to receive the sacraments did not walk away empty-handed.
In other words, the church is not claiming to know whether rebaptism is necessary - in fact, they’re outright saying they don’t know. The re-baptism is sort of “just in case”.
Interesting article on the subject, giving some more background and exploring the logic, or lack thereof.
It just occurred to me that this reminds me of the time the Chief Justice made a slight flub in the wording when he swore in President Obama, so they did it a second time just to prevent any constitutional questions.
That’s actually how it was done in New Testament times. There were witnesses, but the person being baptized did the dunking all by himself.
Is this the same God who tends to refer to Himself with first person plural pronouns? Sometimes?
But:
Make up your inerrant Mind!
The RCC has no moral authority. They have forfeited it in their zeal to cover up the abuse scandal. I, for one, would be delighted to find that my RCC Baptism in infancy was invalid.
Your sarcasm detector needs calibration.
True enough. I admit that it is a hot button issue with me.
This brought to mind a new story I heard in the early 80s - I don’t remember all the specifics, so I can’t provide a cite, so you’ll just have to believe me…
As I recall, a Jewish woman married a Catholic man, and they had a child. The Catholic grandmother, worried for the baby’s soul, had him secretly baptized against the mother’s wishes. When the mother found out, much ruckus was raised, and a bishop or cardinal or someone decided that they’d just annul the baptism.
I grew up in a very Catholic family - heck, my dad was even in a Jesuit seminary for a short time before deciding he really didn’t want to be a priest. (He joined the Marines instead…) Which is to say, from what I’d been taught, once you were baptized, there was no take-back or do-over. You were done and that was that. So annulment of baptism pretty much made my head explode. And within a couple of years, I lapsed. Haven’t been back since except for a couple of weddings and funerals.
^ Yeah, that’s the way I understood it. There used to be a phrase (I don’t know where it originated): “Give us your children and they’re ours forever.”
I wonder how much grandma had to pay for that.
Typical that the church would punish thousands of their “flock” because they didn’t train or monitor their priest correctly.
But that phrase doesn’t refer to baptism. It refers to a Catholic education.
Some claim the maxim comes from St. Ignatius Loyola himself. Yet the idea later proclaimed by the Jesuits is very old — give us a child till he’s 7 and we’ll have him for life.
Ignorance fought, thanks!
Benefits of a semi-Catholic education!
The only thing that surprises me about your story is that grandma was even able to get the baby baptized. Unless she did it herself. Canon law requires at least one parent to consent and reason to at least hope that the child will be brought up Catholic , neither of which seems to be the case in your story. Whether the lack of consent makes the baptism invalid or simply illicit, I don’t know , but it would not surprise me if it was invalid.
Cannonball into the River Jordan!
(Another example of why I was born too late…)
.
When our kid was baptized, the pastor mispronounced his name (instead of an Americanized “Ricardo”, he went for the aren’t-I-multilingual “Ree-carr-do”). So of course, we occasionally call him that just because it annoys him. Even going by Rick didn’t help, now we can call him “Reeeck…”
“Not funny… and NOT my name.”
“Ahh, but it IS… in the eyes of the heavenly gathering of angels that were fluttering around you at your baptism.”
(Is it any wonder the kid’s a Buddhist now? A small price to pay for a good joke.)
It looks like there can be multi-generational consequences for those not baptized correctly:
In Detroit, church officials in 2020 said a deacon used the wrong words while baptizing people from 1986 to 1999.
The most dramatic consequence in that case involved a priest who was baptized by the deacon as a boy: Because the baptism was invalid, so was the 2017 priestly ordination of the Rev. Matthew Hood, who discovered the wrong words while watching a video of his childhood baptism, the archdiocese said.
The archdiocese said marriages performed by Hood might not be valid and urged couples to speak to their pastor as soon as possible “so any steps can be taken to remedy your marital status in the church, if necessary.”
Man, they sure are sticklers for details in this group (when it suits them). So, if the marriages performed by that priest are not valid, what of the offspring of those invalid marriages?
Forgiveness for the worst possible atrocities for a deathbed repentance but punish children for eternity for something that they had no say in.
Merciful God, my ass.