Yeah, I remember it being big news a few years back when the Catholic church decided to no longer accept Mormon baptisms as valid (thus requiring ex-Mormon converts to Catholicism to be baptized again).
This thread seems to be getting a bit sidetracked by hypothetical discussions about someone who might try, sincerely or otherwise, to be accepted simultaneously by both faiths, which is not what I had in mind. I agree thattom’s point is the really important one to be made about this topic; that most Catholics would not think of treating someone obnoxiously due to some obscure point of doctrine. I just happen to be curious about what the obscure doctrine actually is. Full disclosure: the situation described in the OP is my own; I was baptized Catholic, but my parents then lost interest and I got no further religious training, then I converted to liberal Judaism as an adult.
So, what I was trying to figure out was:
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Does the RCC claim any concrete advantage (ie, reduced chance of going to Hell or whatnot) WRT Judaism? (I assume, possibly incorrectly, that it does claim such advantage WRT at least some other religions). Based on the catechism quoted above, I infer that it does not, though there is some vague allusion to Jews having to be “accompanied” by some sort of presumably unpleasant “drama”.
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Does the RCC claim that there is some particularly unpleasant fate waiting in store for those who have separated themselves from it, compared to those who were never baptized in the first place? I had assumed the answer to this was probably “yes”, but based on tom’s replies above, it appears that it may not be. Consider my ignorance at least tentatively fought.
Once again, I am in no way trying to “bait” anyone or disrespect anyone’s beliefs; just curious.
By the way, Anne, I am quite sure you are mistaken about the halacha regarding converts out of Judaism; although they would not be warmly welcomed at most synagogues, they are still regarded as Jewish, and (if they are women), so are their matrilineal descendants unto the nth generation.
The RCC’s position is that there is a benefit in general in understanding and participating in the fullness of Catholic doctrine, liturgy, and spirituality. However, it makes no claim that any individual Catholic has a better chance of getting to heaven than anyone else. God does not include one’s location of worship when judging a life. (Jesus’s statement in Matthew 25: 31 - 46 speaks of the actions of persons without once mentioning their place of worship.)
At a rough analogy, consider Harvard vs YourTown Local College: Harvard comes with a lot of benefits in terms of the rigor of study, the quality of one’s professors and fellow students, and the image that one carries simply by being able to include Harvard on one’s resume. However, only an idiot would think that every Harvard graduate has been successful or that a graduate from YourTown Local College could never make good in the world.
The Church would say that to the extent that an apostate has made a deliberate choice to turn his or her back on the Body of Christ by leaving the Church, that person endangers his or her soul.
HOWEVER, the important aspect of that statement would be that the person who has left knew that the Church was the right path to heaven and deliberately chose to turn away. Given that I doubt very many people actually “know” any such thing, the number of people who are “endangering their souls” (according to the Church) by leaving the Church is probably very tiny. (In earlier times, I am sure that the teachings of the Church would have been much harsher on this issue, but there are historical reasons behind some of those teachings rooted in the perception that the church was under direct attack and someone who abandoned it was acting the part of a traitor.)
(In fact, a number of the fiercest battles within the Church occurred following the persecution of Diocletian (beginning in 302 and extending up to the reign of Constantine) in which a great many people submitted themselves to the emperor’s demand that they renounce their faith. When Constantine legalized Christianity, there was a fearsome scandal regarding who had or had not held the faith, with some people offering forgiveness to those who had folded in the face of torture and others holding that they should have harsh penances imposed upon them–if they were re-admitted at all.)
I could well be.
But I haven’t heard of any cases of someone who was interested in converting to Judaism, then found out that their nth generation ancestor in the female line was Jewish and didn’t have to go through with the conversion. Stories of people finding out that they have some Jewish ancestry when they show interest in converting to Judaism, OTOH, are pretty common.
There is a case of someone, Oswald Rufeison, who was born Jewish but was refused entry to Israel under the Law of Return because he had converted to Catholicism and was a practicing Catholic (in fact, a Carmelite monk). So the Supreme Court of Israel at least says that he was not Jewish enough to be let in as a Jew while he was practicing another religion (though the rabbinate of Israel ruled the other way).
I’ve never heard of a case where someone tried to join a synagogue while also being a member of a church. I would think that decision would be made by the leadership of the individual synagogue in question, though I can’t imagine any but an extremely liberal synagogue allowing the person to join.