And a fine multi-tasker! Wonder what GHz He runs at to do all that? 
I know you’re kind of joking (and maybe drunk 
) but this is the kind of thing non-Catholics level against us – that we pray to saints as if they have any power on their own and how that goes against there being one God. So just to be clear, we’d be praying for the intercession of that saint to God, not praying to that saint as the Source of anything. Even Mary who is the greatest saint is prayed to in the sense of “Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death”.
Thanks, all, for helping out with the candle question. I’ll go back in a few weeks to see who was on which side, because I’m curious. Either way, it felt good to light the candle and I’m glad I did.
So many of my favorite saints have been ‘unsainted’ by the church that I’ve given up trying to pray to them, although I still have my favorites - St. Christopher probably being the most well known. Having said that, I will add that I no longer practice Catholicism, although I don’t think that’s a religion that anyone can leave 100%. It kind of gets in your blood.
I believe the official term is an “indelible mark on the soul”.
Christopher wasn’t ‘unsainted’, he was removed from the official calendar of celebrations. There are thousands of ‘official saints’, but not all of them have a calendar celebration date.
Christopher and some others were removed because there really is no historical record of them. They could be real, they could be simply legend, or something in between. We just don’t know.
Since the celebration of official saints on the calendar are meant to inspire folk to imitate the virtues of those saints, then if we really don’t know what they did… there is little inspiration to draw from, so, off the calendar then.
Might I turn to the other part of this question, and ask something about candles?
I’m an atheist, but my grandmother was a devout Catholic. When I’m vacationing abroad, one of my favorite things to do is duck into the churches, which are, almost without exception, incredibly beautiful and often have nice things like free organ concerts. While there, I often drop my euro into the donation box and light a candle for grandma and spend a few minutes thinking about her. She’s gone, but I know she’d appreciate it.
All this talk of saints’ statues, though, has me wondering a few things: 1) There’s often many racks o’ candles. Does it matter which one I “use”? 2) Generally, is there any special etiquette associated w/ candle-lighting in churches? I’m not going to cross myself, which I think would be both rude and silly, and I’m not going to be a jerk by lighting the candle w/o donating. But is there anything past that?
Thank you for enlightening me. I’ve forgotten a lot and along with that, I don’t think I knew some of what you told me. I appreciate the information.
Nope, not at all. Pick whichever one appeals to you! When I used to go to churches with candles, I would compulsively pick one so the lit ones were spaced out evenly, but that’s just me.
Underline mine.
At the same time, a saint can be legendary and still serve as inspiration: St Christopher is the “Christophoros” - “he who carries Christ with him”, which is something every Christian is supposed to do. He’s an allegory, a personification of a concept. But a concept is not “someone we can use as an example”.
Also, most calendars have only a limited list of the saints of the day, and one of the things which happened when the calendar of feasts got reorganized was some date-shuffling; people may look at a saint’s former feastday in the calendar, not see the saint they’re looking for and think it’s been removed when it just got moved. St Fermin was July 7th, now it’s September 25; Dolores used to be mobile, the Friday before Palms Sunday, now it’s fixed on September 15.
It was my understanding of what I was told, that it is a reminder of when Jesus hid, because he was not yet ready to be crucified. He said his time had not yet come.
Sorry, what is?
I assume that monavis is referring to the statues being covered.
Thanks!
Yes, thanks, that is to what I was referring.
That’s a false etymology. It wouldn’t explain covering other statues. Covering the body on the cross is not because he’s ‘hiding’ or waiting his time, but because the Holy Thursday (Last Supper commemoration), Good Friday (crucifixion commemoration) and Holy Saturday Easter Vigil (resurrection commemoration) – collectively known as ‘The Triduum’ – go through the final days of Jesus step by step. And until the Good Friday liturgy, ‘he isn’t crucified yet.’ So they hide the image of the corpus.
It’s the same sort of literal reenactment that causes some people not to put the infant Jesus in the nativity scene until Christmas morning.
While true, Vatican Council II very explicitly asked that there be a reform of ‘the cult (devotion) of Saints’ using real history as a guide and not mere legend. Promoting legendary stuff had made the devotion of the saints seem more like children’s fantasy stories than actual history.
Actually the entire Bible and the teachings of religions are based on legend. The History Channel uses legend instead of fact.( Like yesterday when they were talking about the Ark, and the Ark of the Covenant), Why the big secret of the AOC makes no sense. Because they have said to have found articles from that period doesn’t prove a thing. Some people even believe it was from “Aliens” in outer space who taught humans these things and it makes about as much sense to me. If one has the truth or proof and doesn’t want to show it (to me) it means a fake, or why not use the proof for good?
Did you know that there really was an Egypt and their kings were called Pharaohs? And there really was a city called Jerusalem and there was a big temple build on it? And there really was a Roman Governor called Pilate?
Saying that THE ENTIRE BIBLE is based on legend is a bit extreme, don’t you think?
There’s plenty of archeological and extra-biblical historical evidence to show a lot of what is in the bible is based on fact. Sure, there are things which are plainly legendary, e.g., the creation account (for who was there recording how creation was made?). But to say everything is legend is as simplistic – and wrong – as when a fundamentalist says everything is literally true.
And because some people say “aliens”… what does that have to do with anything? Some people say aliens built the pyramids… does that mean they’re legendary? Or that we’ll never know historically how they came about?
And this was brought up in regard to the historicity of particular saints. We have nothing on Christopher. We have volumes on Augustine. Or was Augustine an alien in disguise?
Of course I know about Egypt, etc. but it only proves that there were natural things and most of the supernatural things( which I should have stated) are, and most have been proven to be conjecture, The flood, the Exodus etc. If one looks deeper into the stories it causes one to wonder why a Supreme Being would go through such unnecessary acts to get the point across. It raises more questions and proves nothing. Such a being would not be a loving caring being, but a monster, who got his kicks out of human suffering.
Of course I don’t believe in aliens, but it makes as much sense as saying there was 29,000 feet of water covering the entire earth, and then a boat landed on a mountain 15,000 feet high, which would mean there was still 15,000 feet to sink into the earth, A wind so strong it blew open the Red Sea, and even little children could walk across when such a strong wind would even blow down a heavy man.
What one calls supernatural is strictly in a person’s belief not fact, or at least not proven to be out of the natural.
As a post script, because some people are called Saints means nothing to me I have read many books about the lives of Saints and believe it or not there were people who called me a saint!! I don’t want to be a saint, it just means they don’t know the whole person. Because the RC teaches it is proof that someone went to a heaven is not proof, and visions can be caused from lack of a diet supplement, self hypnosis, brain damage etc. It is a matter of belief and everyone has the right to their own beliefs, if it helps them be a better person then fine.