Isn’t that technically idol worship?
They don’t worship saints, they venerate saints – look to them as inspirational models of holiness. Saints are now in the presence of God, and so Catholics pray to them to intervene on one’s behalf.
At least that’s how this non-Catholic understands it. I’m sure one of our esteemed RCers will be around to clarify.
It’s been a long time since I was a practicing Catholic, but I’m pretty sure the rules I was taught still hold.
There is only one God, and that is the only God Catholics worship.
A saint is someone who lead an exceptional life, and worthy of admiration and respect., possibly even worthy as a role model. One might pray to a saint to intercede with God, but that’s exactly like visiting your parent’s grave and (as it were) wondering what their advice would be in a particular situation. The only big difference Catholics see is that particular saints are recognized as “experts” in a particular field (St. Joseph is the patron saint of carpenters, for example.)
They’re not worshipped as lesser gods; they’re appealed to as intercessors.
Yes, it’s rooted in paganism. If it weren’t, all those Romans and Celts wouldn’t have converted back in the day.
No, that’s pretty much it as far as any lay Catholic gets it. Theologians might have a more detailed view of it, but this is what gets taught in Sunday School.
Catholics believe in “the communion of saints”. What that means:
As kunilou and Krokodil stated, the saints are not worshiped, but asked to intercede on our behalf. Kind of like asking a friend or family member to pray for you. The belief in the communion of saints says they ARE family. One big honkin’ spiritual family. (The upcoming family reunion’s going to be real blast…)
Because they have slip this mortal coil is no hinderance to us asking them to pray for us or for them praying for us. Besides, they need SOMETHING to do while they are tuning their harps.
What Saint Thomas Aquinas has to say on the subject.
…and to head off another question, the Virgin Mary is treated the same way; not worshipped, but asked for intercession. In fact, she often is referred to as sort of the chief Intercessor, the only mortal who was bodily assumed into Heaven after death and now the Queen of Heaven.
We’re taught in Catholic schools about some of the pagan customs that we “took over” and refined. It’s no big deal as long as you look at it like a historical quirk.
After all, what good Jewish boy doesn’t listen to his mother?
You need to have performed three miracles to become a saint, and two of them can be card tricks.
Hey Snoop Dizzle, mind if I use that as my Sig?
On the off chance that someone buys the seriousness of the first claim - it is, after all, a belief widely held, and even the title of a 1999 Ed Harris movie - I’ll poin tout that currently only two miracles are required: one for beatificatin and one for sainthood.
- Rick
But of course!
But only if you’re American. We need all the exceptions they can give.
Not quite. First of all, she didn’t actually die, but was assumed into Heaven while still alive. Secondly, she isn’t unique in this, since Elijah and possibly some other Old Testament figures are said to have received the same treatment. And of course Jesus was a mortal and also bodily ascended, but He’s rather a special case.
You are correct, though, that aside from the Trinity, Mary is considered to be the biggest VIP in Heaven, ahead of even the Archangels. And she does end up getting associated with a lot of causes, in intercessions, for the very human reason that whatever odd jobs remain to be done always end up falling to Mom.
To expand on the miracles for canonization, by the way, they’re typically performed after the person’s death. The sequence is this: First, a righteous person dies. If they’re truly righteous, they go to Heaven, regardless of what anyone on Earth might think. Then, friends, family members, or other folks still on Earth start praying to that person for intercession, on the assumption that he or she is now in Heaven. The saint then puts in a good word with God, to add weight to the prayers, and a miracle might be granted on the saint’s intercession. Someone tells the Church top brass about this prayer and miracle, and the Church considers the miracle as a piece of evidence that the person is in Heaven. There’s a long process within the Church of debate of the evidence to decide whether the person is actually in Heaven. When they’re reasonably sure that the person is probably in Heaven, the person is beatified, and when the Church is absolutely convinced of sainthood, the person is canonized. Note that the Church cannot make a person a saint; only God can do that (by accepting the person into Heaven). The Church, in canonization, just lists the person as a saint when they become sure of God’s decision.
It should also be pointed out that Catholics do not worship statues of saints (or of Christ, for that matter)–so the term “idol worship” cannot be applied to Catholicism in that sense, either.
To even further expand Chronos description, any righteous person who dies while in communion with God is a saint, whether we here on Earth know it or not. The canonized saints are the ones that the RCC is reasonably sure made it in. There are, however, many more saints that will never be recognized. In RC liturgy, the congregation prays for the intercession of “…and all the angels and saints,” to cover these “unrecognized” saints.
WoooHooo!! I can do that card trick with the four jacks. One more card trick and a miracle and I’m set!!
Y’all best start venerating me now so you can get used to it.
Not true. Mary died bodily, and her body was laid in a tomb. She was subsequently resurrected, in the same fashion as Christ, and bodily assumed into Heaven. Thus, she was the first believer to partake in the Resurrection.
Where do you people get your information on whether Mary, mother of JC, died or not or went to heaven or not? I mean, when and where did the RC Church state these things? How do they know them? I am curious.
Anecdotal story: When I was 14, my protestant friend asked me why us Catholics prayed to Mary. Good question, I thought, and puled my Priest aside the following Sunday School session to ask him.
I forget the exact quote, but essentially he told me to shut up and thought I had some real nerve asking such a thing.
20 years later I finally find out the answer.
Is it any wonder I no longer belong to the church?