Catholics: What if Hitler had made a "deathbed confession"?

I know the OP asked for the Catholic view, and I know what the Catholic view is on the subject, but since JD horned in with a non-Catholic answer, I wanted to challenge that answer.

God has “rules,” huh?

Jesus gave two rules only:

Love God and love thy neighbor.

“Do this,” he said, “and you shall live.”

Nothing about accepting anybody as a savior, nothing about any particular doctrine.

In the parable of the goats and the sheep, Jesus defined those two rules as synonomous ("…whatever you have done to the least of my brothers…"), so really, according to Jesus, himself, all you have to do is love your neighbor.

The RCC does does not rule out salvation for anybody as it is a gift from God, not a product of human effort. Effort counts, though, in Catholicism, God notices sincere effort to seek out the good, but the effort, alone, is not the decisive factor.

So, yes, Hitler conceivably could have been saved, but it would have required an absolutely transfiguring revelation and repentance on his part. His conversion could not be based in any way on fear, and he would have to truly appreciate his crimes.

He would probably still get a few billion years in purgatory, though.

Mmmm sorry, but no. I suppose folks can “call” themselves whatever they please, but Jewish folks are not Christian, as Zev…Chaim…and a whole bunch of folks more knowledgable about Judaism than me would be happy to explain.

If you’re talking about Messianic Jews, they are ethnic Jews who have converted to Christianity. They are not religious Jews.

Thanks for the clarification that I should have included in my response.

“Jews for Jesus” et al would not be thought of as “religious Jews” regardless of their ethnicity.

I’d like to point out that since Hitler probably committed suicide, it’s all kind of moot. Suicide is a sin, and I’m not sure how you truly repent from that one.

It was, of course, a hypothetical question. The issue is whether somebody who does horrible, atrocious acts along the lines of genocide can, according to Catholic theology, receive absolution of his sins if he makes a deathbed confession. Hitler was just an example. Pol Pot would probably also qualify.

Barry

Diogenes, you’ve touched on what is perhaps the most contentious point of theological disagreement between the RCC and many Protestant denominations: salvation by faith and salvation by works. The Protestants in question say that accepting Jesus into your heart, is necessary and sufficient for salvation – no actions required, no anything. The Catholic point of view is that faith wothout works is dead – that with faith, the works of faith are inevitable.

The blasphemy being referred to is taking the works of God and attributing them to Satan.

Just a minor nitpick…if you believe in heaven and hell…
Ain’t no one in hell yet people!!

Or did I get drunk and miss judgement day?

Bolding mine:

At least we agree on that much.

I won’t argue, everyone has their opinion.
I will let the Catholic Christians continue to answer

That’s mighty big of you. I’m not a catholic Christian, whatever that is. May I answer?

Gee, thank.

I think it means: member of the Catholic Church, who follows Catholic doctrine, who follows Christ.
But I can see how that could be confusing. :rolleyes:

Well, since:

And I cannot retract my own answer, but if I could I would.
I wouldn’t suggest it, but I couldn’t care less what you do.

Can Jesus/God forgive me for being an atheist? Not a god-hating atheist, but one who is unconvinced by the proofs?

Even if I tried a deathbed confession, if I could not sincerely make myself believe the evidence, could I still go to heaven (if it existed). Wouldn’t God see past that?

Would I be considered a blasphemer? Unable to enter heaven? Is disbelief based on the lack of evidence worse than what Hitler did?

Well, the Catholic position is that it is NOT up to us, mere mortals, to say who is damned to Hell. Because it’s hubris, pure and simple.

First: Haven’t we had the “Does Christianity/Catholicism say even HITLER could be saved?” thread several times in the past year’s time? The answer is YES, already.

Second (Catholicism-specific): Penance/absolution are not voodoo. Having the Padre say the words and make the hand gestures means jack if you are nor TRULY repentant. And God knows if you are. In the case of particularly heinous crimes, the priest is entitled to make it a condition of penance that you turn yourself in to justice. A priest CAN refuse absolution if the penitent refuses to perform his penance. And of course, there’s the convenient device of Purgatory, where you may spend a couple of aeons getting a comeuppance before making it into Paradise.

Third, on JerseyDiamond’s slight hijack: On an earlier post, Bricker wrote:

This is understood to include people who have been presented with a perverted version of Christianity, and refused that. Howwever, as recently as 2000 the Vatican HAS found it necessary to reiterate, in Papal and curial statements, that the source of Salvation IS Jesus Christ, though he may reach to those outside the formal christian church, and all possible reasonable effort should be made to get the word out so people DO become christians, and preferrably Catholic. Jews do get Eternal Life, once the Messiah shows up it’ll turn out it’s JC after all.
Or so they say.

The 1994 Catechism of the RCC, as official as it gets, says:

(IOW, everyone else is actually trying to get to where the RCC is even if they don’t know it, and the RCC is the one that got everything right, and is trying to get the word out – Huh.) Again, the “through no fault of their own” has been interpreted to include the situations where the Gospel is presented incompetently or in a twisted fashion or where Christianity has been reduced to just a cultural practice.

**

You’re worried about getting to a place you don’t believe in…as judged by a God you don’t believe in? :wink:

DiamondJersey:

You left out merciful.

Bricker:

I hear what you are saying but you’ve given it a twist by leaving out an important belief. The Protestants who believe that they have salvation through the grace of God also generally believe that good works will be the result of our salvation – not the cause of it. It’s not as if we ignore good works. :slight_smile: But we are human and will continue to make mistakes for which we ask forgiveness.

I was always taught that the Unforgiveable Sin is turning away from God. That does mean that the person is cast into hell, but that the presence of God would not be particularly valued.

One thing nobody’s mentioned yet is that sin is wholly dependent on the ability to make free choices.

If someone’s not making relatively unfettered choices of their own free will, then they’re not wholly culpable for what sins they may commit, e.g. soldiers killing in self defense, mothers stealing food for starving children, and all manner of things that the mentally ill or developmentally challenged may do.

In other words, you have to know it’s wrong and have little in the way of mitigating factors and do it anyway to be truly culpable.

This is a bit hazy from theology class from 1989, but I think I remember the meat of the argument.

Back to the OP… so one way that Hitler may not be damned is if he was mentally ill from the get- go.

Well, once could argue that anybody who could commit such atrocities would have to be mentally ill, but I don’t think I want to go there.

Oh – and I apologize if the topic has been discussed before in the recent past.

Barry

While Hitler was mentally ill in the sense that he was a psychopath - e.g. he lacked foresight, conscience, empathy, and a refusal to accept personal responsibility - he was not INSANE. He was aware of reality and was making his decisions as a competent actor.

I am no longer a Catholic but was raised by serious Catholics…

From my memory, Catholics do not believe in just Heaven/Hell but also Purgatory.

Purgatory is a place of punishment and learning. The punishment can be as extreme as Hell but the people experiencing Purgatory know they will eventually go to Heaven. However, the length of stay varies from person to person. Everyone spends at least some time in Purgatory.

I imagine a repentent Hitler would spend much time there :wink: