jsgoddess said:
Eggs-ackly. Cats were domesticated by humans from feral predators not to be adorable little furballs to be pampered, but to be vermin-hunting automatons, just as wild boars were domesticated to be docile, swill-eating flesh machines and dogs were bred for hunting skills.
Hey, my first pit thread! ;j
It’s one thing to have cats strictly as working animals-as rodent killers.
It’s quite another to neglect to give the cats their shots and get them fixed. For crying out loud, you can take them to animal clinics and stuff!
Contributing to the overpopulation and spread of disease is what is unethical.
I dislike Crafter_Man’s attitude, but some people are just not animal lovers. I can’t help that. However, if he lets the cats go without their shots-and they get rabies…shaking head
Of course, I meant to post: “I doubt the concept of dying of heartworms, or of heart valves, means squat to her. You’re imposing your values on her, and callling them hers. She’s pissed when she gets stuck with the needles, and this is your rationalization for subjecting her to that.” Must–use–preview.
Robert --I’m not arguing that she is wrong in any way for making intelligent decisions on her animal’s behalf, I’m saying it’s wrong to speak of such decisions as the dog’s likely decisions. She’s anthropomorphizing her dog into someone capable of making intellectual choices, but if her dog were remotely capable of doing so, she wouldn’t be her dog anymore. A creature who can understand microbiology is very unlikely to sniff others’ feces on a daily basis.
Why do you need a rationalization for providing adequate medical care for a pet? Especially when, in many counties, failure to do so is illegal.
Umm… with all due respect C-man did you read the OP, it’s not all that unsympathetic to your position. You might also want to double check the forum. You haven’t been pitted, your position has been GD’d.
But barn cats are not pets.
The misconception a lot of you have is a farm cat on a working farm is a “pet”. Most are NOT…out of around 30 or more on our farm are wild(you could NOT get close enough to pet them let alone vaccinate them)…the one or two that are tame are “pets” and are treated to the appropriate shots as necessary.
Most are cats that people from towns who dump them out in the country by idiots who think it is a kindness to let them roam wild and free rather than euthanise them…90% of them don’t last a week. Believe me when I tell you those poor cats are not thanking their former owners for this as their life is scary and pain-filled during their short life.
Those that make it are VERY reluctant to trust a human ever again.
This is a reality of farmlife…it doesn’t make a farmer some cruel ogre who cares nothing for these animals. In the end it is often us who have to make the tough decisions that the so-called “owners” were too cowardly to make themselves.
You have NO idea what it like to have to kill a cat OR dog that is too far gone with disease or injury…and have the animal try to lick your hand not understanding why this has happened to them or why their owners abandoned them.
It would break your heart…I once had to take a beautiful dog(someone dumped on our farm)… to the humane society…she hopped into my car thinking I was taking her home to her “loving” family and was sooooo happy looking out the windows for something she recognized. When I pulling into the pound…a totally unfamiliar place to her all the life went out of her face and she took the last steps of her life with her head down all hope gone.
I am a guy and I’m not ashamed to say I drove a mile down the road and cried.
Farmers are among the toughest and to someone from the outside hardest hearted people there are but very very few would treat ANY of their animals simply like furry tools. Often though no matter how much you care for a particular animal especially a cow you know there will come a time when you must send it to the slaughterhouse…it’s just the way things are.
Sorry if I’ve gone too far afield but I feel really strongly about this.
I once made the mistake of adopting a barn cat. I had mentioned to several friends that I was looking for a new cat and one of them who lived in the country brought me a young cat that had recently taken up residence in his barn. The poor thing was absolutely terrified when it was first brought into my apartment, but I figured it would respond to a few days of free food, just like other strays I had collected in the past. After a month it was still spending all its time cowering (and shitting) behind my couch. I never saw it walking around the apartment; from the fact that the food I put out disappeared I assumed that it only came out to eat when I was at work or at night. I finally had my friend take it back (and almost an arm trying to get it into the carrier).
As I mentioned, I’ve adopted several city strays over the years; I just had to have a kitten that I had found seventeen years ago put to sleep. I took custody of two three-legged kittens just to prevent them from being taken to an animal shelter that I knew wouldn’t bother to even try to find homes for them. (My wife says I have an invisible tattoo that says “sucker” in cat on my forehead.) But even I accept the reality that some animals which are used to living in the wild will not adjust to being pets and cannot be treated as such.
The issue is not “pet” vs. “not pet”. The issue is not whether it’s “wild” or “tame”. The issue is what happens when you take responsibility for an animal, wild or tame, by feeding it and offering it shelter (in the case of the barn cats, this would presumably be in the barn.) If you’re going to take that much responsibility for an animal’s health and well-being upon yourself, then you also have an ethical obligation to see to it that the animal has proper medical care, too.
And this goes double if the animal in question is not merely loitering picturesquely on your premises, but is also earning its keep by consuming rodents, or pulling a plow, or barking at strangers who pull into your driveway.
If you’re not feeding the barn cats, and if you try to keep them out of the barn by keeping the door closed, then they count as “wild” cats, i.e. feral cats, and you have no obligation towards them. They may loiter picturesquely on your premises as they please and take their chances with the food chain.
But if you’re putting out food for them regularly, and you’re letting them sleep in the barn, then they’re “yours”, and responsible owners of animals (notice I didn’t say “pets”) have a duty to see to it that their animals receive timely medical care, which includes immunizations.
If you put out food every day for a coyote or a raccoon who hangs out in your woodlot, and if he eventually gets so tame that he will allow you to shut him in the barn at night along with the other livestock, then you have an ethical obligation to see to it that he gets medical care, too.
Siegfried and Roy see to it that their tigers get their shots; why shouldn’t the barn cats get their shots, too?
Understand. Thanks Astro.
For the record, we always try to keep two male cats on hand. They are strictly “outdoor.” They are never mistreated nor abused, and we feed them twice a day. The winters in Ohio can be quite harsh, so I even built them a heated and insulated cat house. (The heat comes from four 25 W bulbs.) They spend their days running around the yard looking for mice. But as mentioned in the GQ thread, they will sometimes venture into the high grass / wooded area, which is “coyote territory.” Sometimes they won’t come back, in which case it’s time to get a new cat. Average life span for a cat is about 2 to 3 years.
I understand why someone would be upset that we don’t take the cats to a vet to get fixed. But the turnover rate is so high that I simply can’t justify the expense. Unlike the city, we do not have a cat overpopulation problem around here; cats that habitually venture away from homesteads will sooner or later be a scrumptious snack for a hungry coyote. It’s just the way it works around here.
Guin, with all due respect (and we’ve gone over this before) you live a very sheltered and confined life. There really is a physical world that exists outside the internet. You should check it out sometime.
Excuse me, but I have every idea precisely what this is like. I have worked in animal rescue for eight years.
*Duck Duck Goose has summed up the position with which I agree.
As for people feeding feral populations, there may be slightly more going on there than you think. One of the avenues used by people attempting to get some control of the cat population is to do catch and release after sterilization. Simply capturing feral cats means that the cats end up dead and a new population moves into the vacuum. I’ve never decided if I completely agree with this program, but that may be happening if you see feral cats being fed by someone you might have expected to be “activists” or someone similar.
As for some veterinary care versus others, I will absolutely agree that immunizations are good, declawing is bad, spaying and neutering are good. Why? Immunizations, spaying, and neutering benefit both the individual cat and the overall cat population. Declawing is simply a vanity issue for humans and has no benefit (and some serious negatives) for the individual cat.
Julie
Sorry, but that is false. The entire US has a cat overpopulation problem. You may not be seeing it directly, but it is there. Notice how you never run out of cats? That’s because the population is constantly expanding, pushing the cats into your neighborhood from other, more heavily populated areas.
The number of cats euthanized in the state of Ohio each year is staggering.
Julie
I think that Farm cats are not “pets”. But yes, these still deserve minimal care- which includes normal innoculations- IF POSSIBLE. And, of course, such Vet care as is feasable. One should not be cruel to thenm in any way shape or form, of course.
However, as for them being eaten by coyotes- that IS part of the “circle of life” and as long as they are given a place or two that acts as a secure shelter for them against the coyotes, then you do not need to protect them any more.
If you feed ferals, you also need to make sure they are at least fixed- especially if female. Don’t wanna get them neutered? Then you cannot morally feed them either. The Humane Soc wil lend you a “Havahart” trap for catching them, and in most areas you can get them fixed for very cheap or free. DO IT! I think some immunizations would also be a good thing, but as long as you get them fixed, I’ll let you slide. “If you feed, you must fix”.
Crafter- since these are farm cats- if they are male it is not as critical to get them fixed. If you get females, then you absolutely should get them spayed. Especially on your farm, as pregant females are easier targets for predators. There are low cost solutions for spaying.
Yes, yes, I know. The Humane soc & such will also say it is as important to get males fixed also. And for house cats, this is 100% true. But cats don’t “mate for life” or anything close. If you have a population of 100 male cats and 100 females- and you fix 99 females- you’ll end up with 1 litter. If you fix 99 males- you’ll end up with 100 litters- and one very happy but tired Tom cat. The female here is the bottleneck, since you can assume there will always be a male to fill the role. This is not to say you should NOT fix male cats- it is just not as critical.
My sister-in-law has four feral cats she cares for. She’s got houses for them and put heating pads in each house (and left them on from October til last week!). She had them fixed.
We are currently in the market for another kitty. We had to put two down in the space of two weeks. I guess kitty season doesn’t open for a couple weeks yet because no one has any. We get all the kitties fixed. The shelter near hour house charges $100 for an adoption. For that small amount you get:
Spay or neuter
immunizations
vet visit
chip
collar
carrying case
It is well worth the money to buy some peace of mind. There is also a local fund that accepts empty cans. The proceeds from the cans goes toward procedures that owners can’t afford. Very nice way to get rid of the week-end party beer cans!
What do you want me to say? I dislike your apparent apathy towards getting the animals fixed. Sorry.
It has nothing to do with being sheltered, and everything to do with taking responsibility.
I don’t see how that makes me “sheltered and confined.”
:rolleyes:
Note-I am not saying you should spoil and pamper these cats. Obviously, they’re “tools” as you said.
However, I would hope that they’re not spreading filth and disease around. Or mating with female cats around. Unaltered cats without shots are walking cocktails of disease.
And I do hope that if you ever find one injured beyond repair, you do the right thing and take it a vet to have it put down, or at the very LEAST shoot it yourself.
Any tools with moving parts require some regular maintenance. Bring your cats to the vet for a tune-up now and then, and you won’t have to replace them so often.
What does being sheltered have to do with responsibility toward animals? Yes, you can sit by and do nothing, but that certainly doesn’t help the animal population or the working animal in question.
We had an outside kitty for 16 years. He kept lots of critters out of my gardens, but he had a warm barn to go to, as well as medical care if he got into it with some other critter. But he lived his life on his terms (and loved us very much, by the way). It would have been cruel to let him suffer when he got beat up.