CBS apologizes for filming 'Amazing Race' near B-52 memorial in Vietnam

You mean like Bob Kerrey, John Kerry, Al Gore, Oliver Stone, Ron Kovic, and my uncle(who has a picture framed of himself shaking hands with Bernie Sanders)?

If even 5% of all Vietnam Veterans have even heard of that organization much less agree with it, I’d be shocked. Making a judgement of around 2 million people based on such an organization strikes me as at best short-sighted.

You might as well argue the most Vietnam Vets believe the war was a war crime, that the US engaged in genocide, and that the US deserved to lose based on the statements and beliefs of the VVAW(Vietnam Veterans of the War), which probably had vastly more members and was more influential than the yahoo group you mentioned.

Taking this statement along with the others you’ve made into account I get the impression that you’re making judgements about Vietnam Veterans based on people that Philip Caputo, the author of A Rumor of War referred to during a Q&A with me at one of his book readings of “the professional veterans”.

These are the people who make their service in Vietnam the defining experience of their life, who never let anyone forget they served, and who go out of their way in a number of different ways to constantly remind people of it. Many, though not all, also regularly use it as a crutch and an excuse for all sorts of things,(I.E. why they can’t hold onto a job, get divorced, beat their wives, commit crimes etc.).

Yes, I’m sure amongst the Vietnam Vets who go around wearing hats and jackets that proclaim themselves as such, particularly the ones who wear those stupid POW-MIA symbols, and who constantly are telling stories of their service, your description would be pretty accurate, but in my own experience, such are a minority amongst Vietnam Veterans.

In my own experience, Vietnam Veterans, far more than veterans of other wars(with the possible exception of Korea) tend to take the opposite track and bury the past, rarely speaking of or bringing up the subject(my uncle is the perfect example of that). This is particularly true in comparison to WWII veterans.

To give an obvious example, both the American Legion and the VFW long fretted about how a much smaller percentage of Vietnam Veterans signed up as members than did WWII veterans.

Most of the Vietnam Veterans I’ve met you could know for years without finding out that they served and generally don’t like telling stories of being “in country” and the few that do tell such stories often sound like something too much out of a movie to be believable.

So yeah, I suspect amongst the Vietnam Veterans who are members of the American Legion and the VFW, you’re probably correct, but that says far more about those groups than it does about Vietnam Veterans.

I can certainly understand where you’re coming from, but the US and the UK killing vastly more civilians in bombing raids during WWII whereas in Vietnam most of the carpet bombing was useless more than anything and involved just dropping bombs in the jungle.

Do you also get disgusted when people use the term “heroes” to describe American bombers shot down during WWII, or is it just those shot down during the Vietnam War?

Anyway, FTR, I personally don’t see what the big deal is regarding the downed B-52 since it’s not like they were claiming the bombers were war criminals and making them dance on their graves, but then again I’m the guy who never understood why so many people in France got pissed off at the scene in the Battle of Algiers when the guerillas set off a bomb inside an ice cream shop killing a bunch of kids or why so many Israelis got pissed at the ending scene of* Paradise Now *when Said, the christ-figure guerilla blows himself up on an Israeli bus at the end of the movie.

To me they were both fantastic, though flawed movies with really compelling protagonists.

Missed the edit window, but wanted to qualify ‘according to Marxist theory’ - I don’t think there’s too much in Marx supporting this notion, it is rather something that came about after his death and especially after communists grabbed power and had to qualify and classify what they were doing vis-a-vis the end-goals of communism. Brezhnev paid nothing more than lip service to the notion that Soviet society was headed somewhere, was still in transition somewhere and that that somewhere was communism - but Khruschev seems to have been a bit more serious about it. In any case, his famous 1961 quote that they would build a communist society in 20 yearsreflects his understanding of socialism as a stage towards communism.

I’m a proud lefty from way back, but I was disturbed by what I saw.

At first I thought it was cool that the show was going to Viet Nam for the first time. But then at the memorial, I thought, “Americans were killed when that plane was shot down. And their families could be watching this show. And the families of thousands of others who were shot down in planes just like that.”

Frankly, though, the stage production was much more disturbing. In 12 years of The Amazing Race, and who-knows-how-many countries, I can’t remember contestants ever having to sit through a pageant of nationalist propaganda. So the first time it happens is in a country in which we fought — and lost — a war within living memory?

Add to it the fact that American soldiers were told they were in Viet Nam to stop the spread of Communism/Socialism (rightly or wrongly, they are synonymous to most Americans), and the song contained lyrics like “Vietnam Communist Party is glorious” and “Socialism is growing more beautiful with time.” It was clear to me that the Vietnamese government took advantage of The Amazing Race to deliver a giant “fuck you” to America.

(As for the idea that it was too over the top to be taken seriously — it wasn’t any more over the top than “God Bless the USA” (the song) with a huge flag and fireworks. People here take that seriously.)

I wasn’t personally offended as I watched it, but I was certain other people would be. My only thought was, “What the fuck were the people at the show thinking?”

It’s sad that there are many people who are more offended by an episode of the Amazing Race than an unnecessary war that killed millions of people.

I think that would be tempered by “The people they were bombing or their families probably still live near that plane”.

I’m pretty sure none of the Amazing Racers understood a word of that song. The subtitles were only on the TV.

I bet the Vietnamese and the producers both knew exactly what they were doing.

I don’t take those people seriously.

I was and am offended by the war. That doesn’t preclude being offended by what happened on the show.

There were countless demonstrations against the war involving hundreds of thousands of people.

So far there’s been one guy from the American Legion bitching about the episode.

I don’t think there’s much evidence to support the above statement.

I’m not old enough to even remember the Vietnam War, but I still found this ‘stunt’ offensive. Why the hell is some moronic, tawdry, goofball reality TV show even filming in Vietnam at all?! It’s an oppressive, communist, human-rights violating shit hole. And the *only *connection even today that we have with it is the war. So some scumbag reality show producer thought that having a bunch of TV pretty wannabe actors, I mean totally ordinary reality contestants, walking on top of the grave site of a few US military servicemen would be, what exactly? Funny? Ironic? Respectful? Appropriate?!

They should not only have issued an apology they should have fired his ass and ended the series! What’s next? Have a topless beach volleyball game on the Normandy coast? A pie-eating contest on the Gettysburg field? Build a human pyramid on the Arizona Memorial in Pearl Harbor? Have a surprise party at the Hiroshima Hospital dome? A dance contest in the Auschwitz Museum?

If the incredible inappropriateness of this isn’t obvious to you, you’ve got some growing up to do…

Nearly a quarter of Americans (in the year 2000) believed that the Vietnam War was not a mistake.

I’m sure more than one American was offended by seeing a downed American plane and hearing socialist songs. It was apparently enough people for CBS to feel the need to issue an apology.

I seriously doubt 75% of all Americans were even aware that particular episode of The Amazing Race, much less thinks the episode was a mistake.

If the Amazing Race was only allowed to go to countries that were democracies then that would rather dramatically limit the number of countries they could go to.

This was hardly the first totalitarian country they’ve been to and it certainly won’t be the last.

But if you included the non-democracies created and/or suported by US foreign policy it would expand again. Obv. less since the Arab Spring but still offering the show a rich diversity of cultures and continents.

As I said, there are exceptions and I was just expressing my opinions. It’s still my opinion that Vietnam vets tend to be hypersensitive, hyper right wing, suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome, and are hyperpatriotic than the population at large. Without taking a survey, one can’t tell if they constitute a majority. But they do seem to be the most vocal of the Viet vets.

Well, if I got drafted, got sent to a fracking jungle where I couldn’t tell the friendly natives from the bad guys, felt like American military was holding back, watched my fellow soldiers die, figured out the war was probably for no good reason, that we didn’t even win it, and had a bunch of damn dirty hippies calling me a baby killer I’d be a bit testier than your average soldier too.

I’m kinda on the fence on this one. Yeah, in HINDSIGHT this probably wasn’t the best idea, so I think an apology was the way to go here.

Actually, it’s the fourth time the Amazing Race has gone to Vietnam, and the second time they’ve gone to Hanoi. The other 2 times they went to Ho Chi Minh City. cite. Nobody apparently was offended the first three times.

It’s mostly recreational outrage against “the lamestream media”. CBS was the Reich-wing whipping boy back in the days of Dan Rather, there’s still a lot of animosity felt toward it by the right.

Let me see if I understand… you are in the biggest war airplane ever throwing bombs from a safe height at one of the most impoverished countries at the time, you get shot down and you are… HERO?

And that’s not enough… you get to be OFFENDED?

That’s some high-horse-sh!t right there…

Clearly I should have remembered that myself. I was misled by the articles I saw before the season premiere saying they were going to Vietnam for the first time.