No one who came home from Vietnam was treated like a hero.
And I don’t know about this specific plane, but in general, if your plane is shot down, you don’t go home.
If you got shot down, you might want to re-think the whole safe height thing.
But if you do, then apparently you have a better than average chance of becoming president, or at least a major party candidate for president.
Risk/reward.
Also, in general, you’ve got to be some unlucky mother to get shot down over Viet Nam.
Fwiw, I don’t believe any were shot down until 1972, and only then because the North acquired SAMs.
In the past several elections combat veterans have repeatedly lost to non-veterans(George H. W. Bush, Bob Dole, Al Gore, John Kerry, and John McCain).
I think the idea that being a veteran is a political advantage is highly exaggerated.
Yes, because you think that vietnamvetsonlyii, a yahoo group that probably only about 3% of all Vietnam veterans have even heard of is representative of them.
Your logic is flawless.
Beyond that you have yet to show a shred of evidence that they are “the most vocal of all the Viet Vets.”
As near as I can tell the vast majority of Vietnam veterans who’ve entered politics have either been democrats or moderate Republicans(I.E. Hagel).
To me that’s far more significant than some stupid yahoo group nobody has even heard of.
The war isn’t the only thing; a lot of cheap manufactured goods come from Viet Nam.
I found the location of the route marker more ill-considered than offensive; it took me right out of the double U-turn drama and into the realization that American servicemen were lost there, and some people were going to have a problem with that being pumped into their living rooms. TAR has aired powerful Vietnam segments on previous races which makes this bungled effort rather surprising. Ian’s story arc on his return to Vietnam was truly memorable, whereas this felt clumsy and wedged in. If I was a vet tuning in to see something akin to Ian’s story and got this instead, I’d take offense.
The above was a bit snarkier than I intended.
This. CBS let themselves be used in this way.
All’s well, old chap. We just have to agree to disagree. It’s quite possible that the Viet vets that I encounter are a bit assholier than the group at large and that biases my opinion.
Part of growing up is developing a worldview that is larger than yourself; one that can understand and empathize with those who hold different viewpoints. War is the most extreme form of settling differences of opinion, and represents the worst of humanity’s egotism. Hallowing sites of war, especially famous ones, seems to me the height of immaturity–of grudge-holding. Yes, awful misery occurred in all the places you listed, and millions more places you didn’t. But it seems to me the world would be a better place if we focused more on pie eating, topless volleyball, (living) human pyramid building and dancing than on grisly behavior in the distant past. We can still study history, so we never forget what ANY society can become capable of, but there is a poetic beauty in engaging in ribald acts of mirth, of celebrating our better side, in the sorts of places where we once showed our worst.
I notice wilful omission of some less savoury places in your list – how about stone paving contest in Fallujah, castle building in Abu Ghraib, pissing contest in Afghanistan, scuba diving in Guantanamo, LEGO competition in Mogadishu, international safe house hunting in Teheran?
Now, that I would pay to see…
When I watched the episode, I noted that it was curious that an american show would visit such a site as well as the challenge with the obvious socialist propaganda.
The show depicted it as a war memorial which should be no more offensive than other memorials around the world. Although, had they shown the plaque at the site…I can see where Americans and Viet-Vam Vets might be offended.
My post was a somewhat tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that getting shot of out the sky may suck, but if you survive it your odds of one day running seriously for president appear improved as both George HW Bush and John McCain have been through that.
It was not meant as a serious comment on the value of combat experience towards political office.
I could understand some outrage if they’d done anything like that. But the show essentially said “this place exists, the players will go there, they will not do anything other than get a piece of paper that will tell them to go somewhere else.”
They did not recreate failed bombing runs. They did not spit on graves. They simply acknowledged the place exists.
From the plaque:
“… the US Imperialist violating Ha Noi airspace.”
“… defeating the US Imperialist”
How’s this offending? Because it’s truth or because it’s not a glowing praise?
I always wonder what kind of a mindset one has to have to find this offensive … :rolleyes:
Well, ironically speaking, having that piece broadcast in US is violation of:
“He who controls the past controls the future. He who controls the present controls the past.”
Who the heck does CBS think is to broadcast anything other than official story?
Come war with Iran we wont be able to recruit anyone.
<<shrugs>>Personally, as neither an American nor a Viet-Nam Vet, I am not offended but I can empathize with those that have their own sentiments of the war and its impact on themselves and their families.
People in the US and Vietnam fought and died trying to protect the kinds of freedoms you take for granted and CBS provided free airtime propaganda celebrating that defeat. Quite the mystery.:dubious:
I missed the celebration of the defeat. Was that on this episode?