Cecil's Jefferson/Hemings retraction

[system]

Oook, Jens, you’re right.

[system]

When [Cecil] talks about the DNA testing, he says:

quote:

So pathologist Eugene Foster… decided to take the Y-chromosome DNA or male-line descendants of Hemings’ eldest son, Thomas Woodson… and her youngest son, Eston Jefferson Hemings…

but at the end of the article he says:

quote:

We aren’t sure if Sally even had a son named Tom.

At first I was thinking perhaps he meant that Thomas Woodson was the son of Madison Hemings (mentioned earlier in the article) but re-reading it seemed to make it clear that Thomas Woodson is Sally’s son.

So - am I misreading this or has Cecil unintentionally contradicted himself?

Don’t blame me, bub. The contradiction is in the evidence. We’re not sure if Sally had a son named Tom. Callender said she did, and Woodson family tradition holds that she did, but, unlike the other Hemings chidren, Tom isn’t mentioned in the Jefferson farm records. There’s also no DNA link with TJ. Some say Tom was quietly sent to a different plantation to avoid scandal and the records destroyed. But nobody really knows. So make that alleged son Tom.

[Note: This message has been edited by Cecil Adams]

[SterlingNorth]

Mundane Pointless Update
The folks at the TJ Memorial Foundation as decided to join in on the “he probably fathered at least one child” side of the debate.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A33011-2000Jan26.html

<Blockquote><font size=1>The Washington Post:</font><hr>
The keepers of Thomas Jefferson’s Monticello plantation announced yesterday that they have concluded that he probably fathered at least one and “perhaps all” of his slave Sally Hemings’s six children, and they said they will include that information in tours and programs at the historic hilltop estate.

. . .

Until yesterday, the foundation had resisted taking a formal position on the hotly debated Jefferson-Hemings liaison and on the DNA study, which was conducted by a team of researchers led by retired pathologist Eugene Foster and released in November 1998.

[/quote]

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This is America
A black woman warns cabbies to protect themselves by refusing to pick up young black men.

[jab1]

Ah, geez! I wanted to post that link! Darn you, Sterling! Darn you to heck!

Is anyone else going to watch the Made-for-TV movie about Tom and Sally on CBS next month? It’ll be interesting to see how much Hollywood myth and romance gets mixed in with the facts, assuming that any facts survive at all!

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>< DARWIN >
__L___L

[Irishman]

Since we’re reviving dead threads, let me make a couple additions.

Jefferson wrote a draft Constitution for Virginia at the same time Madison did. Madison’s was eventually used for Virginia, but they were very similar, and both were templates for the U.S. Constitution. Jefferson’s version contained the following provision:

" NO PERSON HEREAFTER COMING INTO THIS COUNTRY SHALL BE HELD WITHIN THE SAME IN SLAVERY UNDER ANY PRETEXT WHATEVER."

Also, prior to the final version that was ratified, he wrote a draft of the Declaration of Independance. His draft had as one of the charges against King George:

(C15) HE HAS WAGED CRUEL WAR AGAINST HUMAN NATURE ITSELF, VIOLATING IT’S MOST SACRED RIGHTS OF LIFE AND LIBERTY IN THE PERSONS OF A DISTANT PEOPLE WHO NEVER OFFENDED HIM, CAPTIVATING & CARRYING THEM INTO SLAVERY IN ANOTHER HEMISPHERE, OR TO INCUR MISERABLE DEATH IN THEIR TRANSPORTATION THITHER. THIS PIRATICAL WARFARE, THE OPPROBRIUM OF INFIDEL POWERS, IS THE WARFARE OF THE CHRISTIAN KING OF GREAT BRITAIN. DETERMINED TO KEEP OPEN A MARKET WHERE MEN SHOULD BE BOUGHT & SOLD, HE HAS PROSTITUTED HIS NEGATIVE FOR SUPPRESSING EVERY LEGISLATIVE ATTEMPT TO PROHIBIT OR TO RESTRAIN THIS EXECRABLE COMMERCE: AND THAT THIS ASSEMBLAGE OF HORRORS MIGHT WANT NO FACT OF DISTINGUISHED DIE, HE IS NOW EXCITING THOSE VERY PEOPLE TO RISE IN ARMS AMONG US, AND TO PURCHASE THAT LIBERTY OF WHICH HE HAS DEPRIVED THEM, & MURDERING THE PEOPLE UPON WHOM HE ALSO OBTRUDED THEM: THUS PAYING OFF FORMER CRIMES COMMITTED AGAINST THE LIBERTIES OF ONE PEOPLE, WITH CRIMES WHICH HE URGES THEM TO COMMIT AGAINST THE LIVES OF ANOTHER.

I believe Jefferson did make efforts to make slavery illegal at the founding of the United States, but was outvoted by the others.

[DSYoungEsq]

Interesting to note that, while they have accepted the claims of the various Hemming children known to exist, they have decided to reject the unverifiable claims of the Woodsen descendants.

[Kimstu]

Irishman cited TJ’s draft of the Declaration of Independence:

<BLOCKQUOTE>
HE HAS WAGED CRUEL WAR AGAINST HUMAN NATURE ITSELF, VIOLATING ITS MOST SACRED RIGHTS OF LIFE AND LIBERTY IN THE PERSONS OF A DISTANT PEOPLE WHO NEVER OFFENDED HIM, CAPTIVATING & CARRYING THEM INTO SLAVERY IN ANOTHER HEMISPHERE, OR TO INCUR MISERABLE DEATH IN THEIR TRANSPORTATION THITHER. THIS PIRATICAL WARFARE, THE OPPROBRIUM OF INFIDEL POWERS, IS THE WARFARE OF THE CHRISTIAN KING OF GREAT BRITAIN. DETERMINED TO KEEP OPEN A MARKET WHERE MEN SHOULD BE BOUGHT & SOLD, HE HAS PROSTITUTED HIS NEGATIVE FOR SUPPRESSING EVERY LEGISLATIVE ATTEMPT TO PROHIBIT OR TO RESTRAIN THIS EXECRABLE COMMERCE:
</BLOCKQUOTE>

“He has prostituted his negative”!!! Does this just mean “he has misused his powers of veto”? Magnificent: they don’t make political invective like they used to…

• Kimstu "don’t prostitute your negative