I was making the point that while they are indeed an interest group, they also had to look at the recognition an actress got among the public, that of course was mostly Australian, but that was not an issue that prevented consideration before AFAICR.
I frankly thought that there would be more of a controversy for Kamala, or the paraplegic Olympian. While some as King Kong Bundy or Hulk Hogan are well known, guys like Kamala may had been known more to Americans, but I only became aware of Kamala after I made a search. Point being that just because I did not know about a guy like Kamala before it is not a good reason to assume that others had not pegged him as a celebrity and I found articles to show that that was the case, so it was with Jessica Falkholt for me and others too.
In any case I have to notice that **Phungi **is allowing her to qualify.
Everyday unknown actors are given roles. Why they are given the role is up to the producers. Nothing guarantees that the project will get wide release, any recognition or make the actor famous.
Kamala was a well known figure in the 80s. I remember joking with my friends that one of our teachers had the same body shape. It’s pretty easy to see that he qualifies by his internet mentions prior to being sick. He was a celebrity in the pro wrestling world for decades.
The actress we are speaking of had no wiki page and another poster can only find her name mentioned in passing in one article about someone else prior to her accident. That’s several mentions less than you can find for me. She became news and gained notoriety because of the horrific nature of her injury and eventual death.
Every year there are a few picks like this. It won’t change. I make sure I don’t pick anyone like this but it’s mostly up to the individual to play within the spirit of the game.
I tend to think rather liberally when it comes to “celebrities” and the death pool. Since there is no money involved, we are left with pride and honor. If a Connecticut weatherman with cancer is allowed to “count”, I think a young but obscure Australian actress can count. I am just mad that I didn’t find and include her.
It’s not like Team Dirt, basset hound, GIGObuster are actually going to win this thing…
Yes, but that is missing the point, while you did know Kamala, he was a big unknown in other countries, when I was in El Salvador I only got to know Hulk Hogan and other big names because they appeared in other media.
Point being that if there had been a pool back then I would not had been mad but impressed for the ones that had him on the list, no mean feat before the internet age.
For the Australians there were other articles about or mentioning FalkHolt before the crash:
In any case, as the [del]Umpire[/del] **phungi **ruled, it stays.
Like I said upthread there are always going to be picks like this. It’s why I’ll never be in the top 10 at the end of the year. I too find non-celebrities that are about to bite it but if I don’t find enough independent information about them to make me believe they have some level of celebrity I won’t play them. I’ve discarded quite a few because of that. I understand that others will chose to not do that. My choice is to play or not and I chose to play. I don’t pick over other people’s lists either but if the subject comes up I’ll give my opinion.
And I wasn’t missing the point with Kamala. I understand the someone not following American pro wrestling would but know him. But using Google it would be easy to see he was famous within that world and was on tv quite a bit. One of the minimum requirements mentioned in the past was for the celebrity to have a Wikipedia page. That is a very low bar. Kamala certainly has a page and had one before he got sick. It was mentioned upthread that this actress did not until her accident.
I would change my opinion if there is no Wikipedia page. It is a low bar, but one must have some standards. However, that is why we have a death master guy. I posted my candidates rather than submitting by email so that other players could post objections.
Had the three who picked her posted their lists prior to the end of 2017? Because this discussion should have taken place, it seems to me, after their picks were announced and before the lady died. Complaining now that they have the points seems like sour grapes to me. And no, I don’t think she was a celebrity, but yes I think they get the points.
They’re a group of* insiders*. They are not the subset of the general public that cares about some particular thing. ‘Australian fans of Australian movies’ would be a subset of the general public that could regard as a celebrity an Australian actress that wasn’t known internationally. ‘Producers and directors of Australian movies’ isn’t the general public of anything.
The problem with this is that it essentially defines fame - or even the prospect of fame - as retroactive: if a director thinks an actor has been reacted to positively by some sliver of the general public, and gives them a shot at a bigger role, they’re already a celebrity by this metric. But if they’re already a celebrity, then when they got the minuscule role that gave them the shot at the bigger role, a director had to have seen how they were reacted to positively at some earlier point - maybe on stage in a college production. So they were famous back then. And so forth, until they were a celebrity in preschool.
There’s not necessarily any point at which one can say nobody “look[ed] at the recognition an actress got among the public” before then. Yet there had to be some point in a celeb’s career at which one has to say, few people have noticed this person yet, they’ve yet to become a celeb.
And that is why I was not making that the whole point. I was mentioning because I do think that they also do take into account the public when choosing an actress. But yes, not a very important reason.
Only that it was not just that. As I pointed before she would not had qualified if that had been just the sad history of a family dying. It would had been notorious only in Australia if there had not been a claim to fame too. If there had been a lot of news and fame solely because of the accident she would not had pinned the radar. She was recognized for something else, not solely for getting into a comma.
Retroactive again, this time in the sense that there was this horrible accident, and they found something in her background to make it look like she was more notable than she actually was.
‘Pinned the radar’? The words are English, but that doesn’t mean the concatenation has meaning.
Punctuation jokes aside, retroactive. Like I said.
Her fame prior to the accident was negligible. It’s like the old saw about death being a good career move.
Well, we’ve got a problem there. You can post your list in for a year (e.g. 2018) right up to the deadline, when there’s no time to challenge the picks in the preceding year (2017). Which is why our Death Shroom, in his wisdom, put the following in the rules:
Note the absence of any end date for questioning the appropriateness of a pick. I tend to think there should be some deadline for doing so - perhaps a week or two into the new year - so that those of us who’ve been raising questions over the past day or so would have had a ‘put up or shut up’ date to examine picks by. In the absence of such a deadline, the precipitating event for raising such questions is naturally going to be the death of such a borderline celebrity.
But that’s a suggestion for the 2019 Death Pool. For the 2018 DP, the rules are what they are.
Sorry, that was supposed to be “Ping the radar”. Again, nothing would had been reported if it was just a fiery crash. It seems to me that the retroactive thing is to refuse to notice that it was not solely because of the crash.
Team Dirt posted his picks about 9+ hours to the deadline. basset hound posted with about 20 minutes to go. And GIGObuster used the online form, so we did not see his picks until after the game was underway. There was really not opportunity for discussion.
I said I thought they should get the points. I know what the rules say. I just think all this on-and-on SDMB-style argument is sour grapes.
I stand by that.
**phungi **ruled, it stays.