“American Airlines is giving its passengers extra time to use their cellphones before and after flights. Passengers are now allowed to use their phones, two-way pagers, and some other devices until the plane’s doors are closed before takeoff and while the plane is taxiing to the gate after landing. Until yesterday, cellphone use was prohibited from 10 minutes before takeoff until landing on American flights; **it is forbidden during flight by the US Federal Communications Commission because of possible interference with airplane equipment.”[B/]
I have read somewhere that there is no valid safety concern about cellphones interfering with airplane equipment, and that the rules that ban cellphone use aloft were created years ago by the cell service providers. True? Thank you!
My only data comes from a guy I knew who worked for a company that made such things as radar altimeters. He said that proper operation in an electronically “noisy” environment was an important part of the design. He scoffed at the idea that cellphones could cause problems.
One point is that people forget to turn their cellphones off in all sorts of circumstances, including concerts and when on airliners. Thus, despite the rules there is probably an active cellphone (or several) on board many flights.
I’ve always thought it was preposterous that something running off a battery that fits in my pocket could interfere with a machine the size of Godzilla. I suspect they just don’t want you distracted from the Important Safety Demonstration.
Considering these planes are designed to withstand a direct lightning strike with all the RF and EMP they can generate, I don’t think a mere cellphone is going to do a thing to them. Of coures, they do provide you with access to those neat air phones–for a price. :rolleyes:
The problem isn’t with the airplanes, it’s with the cell towers. A cell phone on an airplane can hit a myriad of towers at once. This can screw up things for the cell phone companies. However, considering that the folks on Flight 93 were able to make cell phone calls, I’d say that problem’s been largely corrected. Of course, it could be an over-reaction like those signs warning you not to use your cell phone while pumping gas. (Because of 1-in a-zillion odds that it’ll generate a spark and send everything up in flames.)
The thing is, if there’s ANY chance of of there being interference that could cause a problem (even one as “insignificant” as disrupting info being recorded to the flight data recorder, it’s better not to run the risk. There are a lot of phones and a lot of air travellers in the world, and a lot of flights every day…
It’s an FCC regulation, not an FAA - it’s not, however, 10 minutes before and after flight as the OP mentioned but rather no cellphone use when off the ground. It’s now becoming common for pilots of small planes, at least, to have a cellphone in the cockpit.
No, it’s not likely there would be a problem - however, there is anecdotal evidence that if a person is positioned directly next to or over an antenna mounted on an airplane and is using electronic equipment - cellphone, laptop, palm - it can cause interference. This is more likely to happen with a small general aviation airplane than a jumbo jet, but it’s still a possibility.
Why take chances? - that’s why airlines and other folks in charge of flying have had the “turn them off” rule.
Airplanes fly just fine with cellphones turned on - It really is much more a problem with the cell towers than the airplanes. Problem is, from above the little cellphone contacts more than one tower, monopolizing the system. So there is no question you can call from aloft, in fact, you’ll have greater range than on the ground. If you get caught, you’ll get in trouble with the FCC, not the FAA. But use of a cellphone in an emergency is entirely different than casual yakking
i’m not too sure about phones in planes - i’ve honestly never tried. but i do know that in small planes it gets really irritating. you can hear that telltale SMS “tut-tut, tut-tut, tut-tut” over the comms. jamming? not too sure my weeny little motorola can do that…
in fact, you hear that tut-tut sound coming from just about any speaker placed near a phone that’s about to receive a message. happens at home in front of the comp too - it’s how i know something’s coming while my phone’s in silent.
That is a logical argument as to why it should be okay to use your PalmPilot or GameBoy while in the air. But you seem so have missed the point that this particular “something running off a battery that fits in my pocket” is one which was specifically designed to be powerful enough to radiate radio waves to cell towers several miles away.
(This post should not be taken to imply that I think use of cellphones on planes is unsafe. I’m just pointing out the logical flaw in NoCoolUserName’s post.)
I’m certainly no expert on the matter, but I can offer a recent experience that would indicate that cell phones do in fact have some effect on the safe operation of an aircraft.
While traveling recently on a small jet (DC-9?) the flight attendant was interupted during the serving of the in-flight snack by the familiar “bing-bong” of the cockpit wishing to get his attention. He promptly picked up the small telephone just outside the cockpit, spoke for a brief minute, and then asked all passengers carrying cell phones to please insure that they were switched off. After a couple of minutes he asked if anyone had discovered that their phone was on and sure enough, a guy across the aisle did have his phone on.
So, something must have been going on for the captain to ask for everyone to check their phones…right?
I am not a cell comm tech but I did work on cell billing for a couple of years and got familiar with the technologies. A cell phone on the ground can hit multiple towers at once, especially in densely built areas (smaller cells, higher cell density). There is a protocol for a cell site to detect the phone and negotiate with other cells to determine which cell is getting the strongest signal and therefore picks up the call. That is the whole foundation of cell phone technology, and allows cell handoff during a call if the caller is moving. This negotiation continues for any phone that is powered on regardless of whether a call is in progress, to be able to instantly complete a call. I cannot see why increasing the number of cells contacted by a relatively few phones is going to cause a problem.
Broomstick explained it better. If you’re higher in the air, then you’re going to hit more towers than you would if you were on the ground, plus the towers you hit are going to be farther away than the ones you could hit if you were on the ground.
And the cell phone company I worked for denied that it was even possible for you to get a cell phone to work in a plane. (This was post-9/11, BTW.)
I know of at least one case where a woman used her cell phone on a plane and refused to turn it off when asked. She managed to disrupt communications between the plane and tower and was arrested on landing. I never heard any other details of what exactly happened.
You’re forgetting that Godzilla is controlled by tiny little computers with little 5 volt control lines. All you need is a couple of volts of noise in the right place to flip a bit and all of a sudden you get an uncommanded hard left turn (wheeeeee!!!).
As far as I’m aware there has never been a documented case of cell phones affecting an aircraft control system. I’m aware of several other instances of a small battery powered device knocking godzilla on his bum. One that always sticks in my head was in a manufacturing plant when they were having trouble with part of the plant. One of the operators told a technician to open up one of the cabinets and see if a particular piece of equipment was still running, which he did. He then got on his walkie-talkie and said “yeah, it’s still running. Oh wait it just crashed.”
:smack:
As we all know, they work fine in an airliner on the ground.
My limited experience (a half-dozen cases) says that they work reasonably well, though not infallibly, in a small aircraft at typical altitudes (say, 5000’ AGL). But that’s hardly surprising, since there are mountain areas where you can be driving in a car at altitudes equal to what a small plane might use.
Yes, you will hit more towers and farther away towers. But this is still just a matter of degree. I looked at Broomstick’s post before I responded to yours and didn’t see any additional information to refute the notion that the normal mode of a cell system is for multiple towers to get a signal from the same handset. In a place like Manhattan it would not surprise me if 8-10 cells were getting a signal from the same phone. And the distance between the towers is a red herring, unless we’re talking about roaming, in which case I’m not quite sure how it’s handled.
What? This deep into the thread, and no mention of the Cecil Adams column on FM receiver interference on airplanes? I know, I know, it doesn’t exactly cover cellphones, but it seems to cover the idea that electronic receivers can (though not necessary often do) cause problems on a plane, and thus their restriction from use…