Beyond that, this has fuckall to do with Obama’s “feelings.” Presidents endure death-threats and assassination attempts, fer chrissakes, and a few times the attempts have been successful. I don’t think Obama is crying in his coffee over Mr. Wilson behaving like a teenager, but that’s not the point. The issue is over the appropriate consequence for Mr. Wilson’s highly inappropriate actions. Nobody cares about Obama’s “feelings.”
Formal censure is a pretty heavy penalty to put on someone. I think it may be a little harsh in this instance, as I’m not aware of any similar incidents drawing formal censure. If I’m not mistaken, I think Dick Cheney told someone to go fuck themselves while speaking in an official session.
That said, the conduct by Congressional Republicans last night was not a proud moment for the party. Seems like I remember protesters, including Cindy Whatsherface, being removed from the chamber during one of the Bush SotU addresses. I see no reason why similar measures were not employed against those disrupting last night’s speach.
As is being discussed in the pit thread, I can’t help but feel there is quite a difference between booing and outright making claims of lying.
Not quite the same thing. There are pauses for applause built into every presidential address, so presidents invite comment (en masse, and almost always positive) during their speech. If that comment happens to be negative…tough noogies. Wilson’s response was verbal, and personal. He didn’t boo during an applause line; he called Obama a liar. Big diff.
I think the direct outburst calling the president a liar is of a markedly different character. Groups of people will laugh or grumble and so on during a speech and that generally can slide by. If you want apples-to-apples comparison to your link consider what else the republicans did last night (read below). No one is fussing over that stuff (much).
Not just making an outright claim of lying, but apparently being unable to control himself, and shouting Liar! Liar! Pants on Fire! loudly in the middle of a Presidential address to Congress. Compose yourself, already, or sit in the corner with the rest of the out of control children.
For the record, my opinion is censuring might be a bit harsh, but hopefully, the fallout will be punishment enough, and he’ll lose politically big time.
Ha, if anything get’s old, it’s this.
Even under the Westminster system, (which can be quite vociferous and antagonistic) if a member uses unparliamentary language (most specifically accusing another member of lying), then the house speaker will intervene and warn the member. Using the terms “lying” “lier” “pig” “jerk” “sleazeball” etc. is considered to be unacceptable.
Yes, yes… It’s all water under the bridge now… Let’s not dredge up ancient history and argue over who killed who, and who started wars based on cherry picked “intelligence”.
It’s time to move on now, and complain about socialists under the bed!
I say let it pass. Given the context of his protest, a motion to censure Wilson would only focus public attention on the non-issue of illegal-immigrant coverage when the health-care debate should be focusing on more serious considerations.
Cite to me complaining about socialists under the bed and I will rescind my post.
I doubt Bush likes being reminded of it either, but its truth does not diminish with repetition.
I agree,. By the time the bill passes the illegals will have been granted amnesty and won’t be illegal anymore anyway…
<looks back>
I don’t seem to see where I accused you of complaining about socialists under the bed. I merely exhorted us all to ignore the past, move on, and START complaining about socialists under the bed. Live in the present man!
Nor do its consequences.
Newsflash, Kearsen: Our people are fighting and dying in Iraq *today *because of Bush’s lies, and the enthusiastic swallowing of them by people like you. Today. Is that “old”?
You cannot seriously blame today’s fighting and dieing on Bush. If you do then you have a distorted sense of reality. If Obama wanted OUR people out of Iraq, then they would be back. Afghanistan?
In fact, why are they not back? What are our formal objectives in Afghanistan?
You are reaching, unless you can show me where I was in support of the war. Do not ass-u-me or you might be wrong, kinda like now.
I most certainly can. As Colin Powell warned, “if you break it, you buy it.” Bush broke it and we’re going to be paying for it through several presidential administrations.
The flasback to 2005 was brought to us by flickster. If Kearsen doesn’t approve of it, perhaps those two should take it up in a new thread and leave this one for discussing the present situation.
I do think Wilson embarrassed himself and his allies, and I fear formal censure proceedings run several risks: they distract from more important matters, they transform Wilson from disruptive jackhole to persecuted martyr, and if they don’t result in an actual censure they could be perceived to vindicate him.
In a time when members of Congress say things that are so much more inflammatory and outlandish than this, it seems quaint to talk about censuring a Congressman for interrupting the president and calling him a liar. I’m not that hung up on respect for the office of the president or anything of that type, but it’s not that freaking hard to sit there for a while and let the guy talk, then go back to your constituents and oppose it. Somehow this was too much for Wilson, which is staggering in its own way. He looked like an asshole, and so did the guy with the signs. It’s not a big issue to me either way, but I think I’d support censure. (Politically, though, it would probably be better for the Democrats to say nothing and just point to what he did.)
I thought the booing was silly, but not new to these kinds of speeches. The BlackBerry checking made Cantor look schmucky, but professionally I suppose he needs to do that. (Use the BlackBerry, I mean, not be a schmuck.)
Who started the war? Or are you seriously urging Obama to, oh, what’s the saying, “cut and run like a traitorous coward”, or something like that?
Bush didn’t lie us into that one. Nobody did. Irrelevant.
I can show you where you call any discussion of it “old”.