A morbid question, but I am curious: There was mention this morning of bringing the remains of the Columbia crew to Dover AFB for identification. And, this was also done for the crew of the Challenger.
It’s hard to recall now, but was the condition in which the Challenger crew was found? Were they found strapped in their seats (as if the whole cockpit was jettisoned as a haphazard strewing of the debris) or were body parts found? I don’t recall the bodies being recovered. I thought they were lost at sea, but it’s hard to remember.
Maybe I missed something in the linked sites but I think the point of the original question was whether the bodies of the Challenger crew were ever recovered and in what condition.
We are reading these morbid accounts of body part being found from the Columbia crew but I don’t recall hearing anything similar from the Challenger disaster. From my understanding of the circumstance of the two disasters it seems that the bodies of the Challenger crew would have remained much more intact yet I don’t remember any caskets, burial remains, etc.
A) Spartydog, thank you. At least you help me validate what I recall from the Challenger incident. Your description fits what I recall.
B) Also, I must semi-hijack my thread and ask: 40 miles up isn’t high enough to vaporize the body parts? Seems pretty high to me! I must have a misconception about the friction involved from a 40 mile freefall - even if you reach some terminal velocity, this it ain’t no pleasant skydive! Anyone wish to comment on this?
Well, it was 20 miles, and my information is two days old but I believe the prevailing notion was that the cabin may have remained intact for some time after the craft began to break apart. I hope not, of course.
Remains were found with the wreckage of the crew cabin. IIRC, they were in the water 6 weeks. Despite everyones demands to know what exactly happened to the crew, NASA was never really forthcoming with what they found in the way of remains. Perhaps it’s on the net somewhere. They probably did this out of respect for the families, a concern I could hardly disagree with considering what we know.
We can probably conclude from the Kerwin report, that the crew made the almost 3 minute descent to the ocean surface relatively intact, if not alive. Most likely, they were either dead or unconscience. There is no reason to believe that any of them were anywhere but strapped into their seats just as they were upon liftoff.
The crew compartment was blown clear of the boosters, and made an almost 3 minute descent to the water. There is reason to believe they were intact and strapped in at the time. From here, you’ll have to speculate on what happened to them. They hit the water at 207mph. Most likely, their bodies were ripped apart in the same manner you see it happen to airliner crash victims. Their remains then lay on the ocean floor and about the wreckage for about six weeks. Someone with experience in this area would be better at speculating their condition than I.
There was much controversy as to the handling and releasing of information concerning the Challenger incident, that apparently NASA intends to avoid this time around. I have already heard several NASA officials, including one at a press briefing this morning, state they intend to be very open and forthcoming with all evidence concerning the Columbia.
The Miami Herald, I believe (perhaps in their weekend magazine) ran an expose of safety issues some months after Challenger in which they reported, IIRC, that remains were brought from the seafloor/capsule in “five gallon plastic pails,” which sounds like the impact was pretty traumatic.
Not to sound too much like a conspiracy nut, but I firmly believe that NASA deliberately left the crew remains in the water for 6 weeks so that a positive cause of death could not be determined because they knew right away that they were all very much alive until they hit the water.
IOW, I believe that the crew cabin with the astronauts all strapped in their seats was located no more than 48 hours after the disaster (it was found in less than 40 feet of water!) and NASA lied about it for 6 weeks.
Hell, NASA acknowledged that 3 astronauts burned to an agonizing death on a launch pad without the slightest cover-up. Why go out of your way to hide this?
The Apollo 1 crew did not burn to death. They asphyxiated.
The Challenger disaster was different. Management voted to launch over the strong objections of the engineers. Specific objections from the Thiokol engineers that the cold would cause the SRB’s field joint to fail, which is exactly what happened.
As I said, the crew cabin was in less than 40 feet of water. It is just ridiculous to believe that it took 6 weeks to find it. I have no cite other than my own intelligence. Finding a piece of wreckage that large, in that small a search area, in that shallow water would not take 6 weeks. No way. Plenty of larger pieces of wreckage were found & brought up long before the crew cabin.
While I also believe that NASA kind of felt it would ‘lessen the blow’’ a bit to not have people know that they were all alive until it impacted the ocean’s surface, I don’t like being talked down to.
According to this series of reports, the cabin wreckage was found in about 100 feet of water. Even off of Florida, winter time isn’t the best time to conduct extensive underwater dive operations. Given that they were finding wreckage all over the place, it isn’t hard for me to see how the days could turn to weeks.
While it seemed that NASA was content in letting people think that the crew died immediately, they never denied the possibility of their survival until water impact. They did in fact concede that the explosion was most likely not enough to kill them.
I just don’t think that loudly and consistently announcing to the media and the public that the water impact is what killed them would do anyone any bit if good. But to suggest some sort of cover up by way of them intentionally not finding them is a bit much. NASA has bosses, and at the time, those bosses were overseeing every detail of NASAs work. In order to proceed with the cover-up you suggest, you would need to solicit the assistance of every federal and commercial entity engaged in the search, to include the USCG, USN, USAF and all the other folks out searching. Impossible.
Only 3 air packs were found activated. If it did keep them alive and conscience, then they did indeed make a hellish 3 minute descent. The rest, without O2, at 48-65,000 feet, quickly slipped into unconscienceness and never regained it. Or they died before they hit.
Wrong-o, the search area was 10X25 miles. Which if I recall my basic math is 250 square miles. Have you ever done any SCUBA diving in poor visibility water? You would have a hard time finding a battleship until you bumped into it. Furthermore when recovering the crew cabin the body of astronaut Gregory Jarvis fell out and sank. The divers saw him sink from the boat. Simple to find right? After all how far away could he get? It took five weeks to find him!
As has been widely reported in the media. Not edvience of a coverup.
Several things here. First off the cabin was found in 100 feet of water. As mentioned aboe the search area was 250 square miles. The water was murkey with poor visibility
Read the report all this information is in the public domain. The reports do not talk down to anyone. Perhaps your complaint is that the popular media did not make you aware of it. That would be a different rant
So what would be the big deal in finding out that the crew was alive until the cabin hit the water? It’s not like there would have been any way of rescuing the crew after the explosion. In fact, releasing the information (as NASA did) that the crew survived up until the point the cabin hit the water says that the cabin was well designed, since it survived an explosion which destroyed the rest of the orbiter!