It was once my belief that brake flushes, like most fluid flushes, were unnecessary revenue enhancement and automotive woo. However, in perhaps 10-12 years, I’ve had three quality shops refuse to do a brake job unless it included a flush. While there could be a strong element of cash pumping involved, two of these were shops I had a good working relationship with and they flatly refused to do the $3-400 job unless it included the $30 or so flush, for the above reasons.
ETA: There have been huge changes in brake technology in the last 20 years, with one end coming from lightening these heavy systems as much as possible and the other coming from new materials and brake fluids. I don’t find it unlikely that a service rare or unnecessary on older cars is essential on newer ones.
I’m doing front pads and rotors on a Volvo XC90 this week, saving $500+ over the dealer quote; I will go splurge $30 on a flush along with an overdue 4W alignment.
I think Rick covered it perfectly, 40 years of experience I would think he knows what he’s talking about. I agree with him but, I’ve only been a mechanic for 25 years. I guess we could both could be wrong.
The shops ‘consider’ a fluid flush ESSENTIAL because it’s a service, ie. ALL PROFIT.
If the fluid system isn’t ‘opened’, it’s not ‘contaminated’ and does not need service!
You can’t buy caliper rebuild kits at auto parts stores any more - your only option is a rebuilt caliper.
OP; your posts have shown that you don’t know what needs to be done here and indicate you don’t know how to do it… so I strongly suggest you have someone else do it for you / your wife.
Cuz those employees just come into the shop and hang out for free, right? And they work in a dark, cold building with no insurance, right? And the building is on Indian land with no property tax, right? And the brake fluid they used to refill your system with, they didn’t have to buy that, right? Should we keep going?
Believe me, I’m the last person to argue this. However, when a shop I know on a first-name basis - one that has sold me parts at wholesale to do my own jobs cheaper, given me advice when I asked for it and never argued an upsell rejection - says they would not do an already-expensive job without the flush, I have to believe there’s something more to it, if only in their experience/opinion.
True to some extent, but particulates come from wear and water comes from even the slightest exposure of the fluid to the air - a loose reservoir cap for a few hundred miles, f’rex - and in a modern ABS/stability control brake system, those factors are far more affecting than in my '68 Mustang’s brute-force braking system.
shrug If the factory manual doesn’t suggest a flush at the time of pad replacement OR at about equivalent mileage/time, fine. It’s not $30 worth saving, IMVHO.
AFAIK, all (current*) car makers (that make cars for sale in the USA*) call for regular brake fluid flushes. This is a routine service that is often ignored; the Quickie-oil places don’t push it (probably because you have to remove the tires and not tightening a bleeder valve is much more serious than not tightening the oil drain plug), and some owners probably feel it isn’t absolutely needed (there isn’t anything wrong).
If the brake system is not flushed as recommended per the manufacturer (usually two or three years), it is appropriate to flush they system when the pads are changed. A visual inspection will let you know. Most brake fluids have a light amber color, similar in shade to a lager beer. They get darker as they age. When they look more like a stout than a lager, you can bet it has been more than two years since the system has been flused. (If you prefer soft-dirnks, substitute Ginger Ale for the lager and Coke for the stout).
The problem is that the brake fluid is hydroscopic, it absorbs water. It will pull the water vapor from the air. The water in the brake fluid will corrode the steel brake lines (as well as the cast iron calipers and the caliper pistons, unless the pistons are made from plastic). The presence of water in the fluid also lowers its boiling point and, since brakes get hot when you use them, having water in the brake fluid can cause brake failure when you are using them the hardest (yes, the brake fluid can boil, which is very bad). Based purely on personal experience, I’d say it takes about 5 years for the fluid to be really dark, but you lose the boiling protection before that.
All that said, if you are doing the brakes on a vehicle (or paying someone to do them), look at the fluid in the master cylinder. If it is dark, flush the system. When cars only lasted 3 years, it wasn’t that big of a deal, but with cars lasting 10 years or more (my newest vehicle is 12 years old), it is important to do. I’m sure there are cars out there that are over 15 years old that have never had the brake system flushed, but I am not driving them.
*qualifiers added since, well, this is the dope, after all.
excavating (for a mind)
There’s been enough good advice given already, but I’ll admit that I fall toward the “clueless” end of the handyman/mechanic spectrum and changing brakes is something I can handle. I changed the pads on my '98 Civic and the pads and rotors on my wife’s '03 Civic. Probably with more grunting and cursing than the national average, but nevertheless.
As someone already mentioned, a C-clamp will come in handy for compressing the piston, if the Accord’s brakes are similar to the Civic’s.
Snipped some of the post. I just wanted to comment about bleeding the brakes and agree with **excavating (for a mind). **
Not only is water attracted to brake fluid, the fluid does not circulate through the brake system. The fluid in the calipers that is doing the work of pushing the pistons to the pads gets dirty and attracts moisture, and it stays there in the caliper. Skipping the entire system flush is not a problem, but you should at least bleed the calipers until you have clean looking fluid. The integrity of the fluid in the calipers is probably compromised. Bleeding fresh fluid into the calipers is a simple step that won’t cost any more money. You might need an additional $1.99 can of fresh fluid.
You do not have to do a major flush or bleed, but at least move some fresh fluid through the calipers if you are going to do a budget job.
This is where I started working on my own cars back in 2012. I was a bit freaked out about it as it is what makes a car stop. And if a car doesn’t stop, bad things happen. Scary stuff.
But it went pretty well. For my first time, I got it all done in less than 2 hours. Since I didn’t know when the last time it had the brakes replaced (bought it used) I also replaced the rotor. $30 per wheel wasn’t too much.
One thing. Be sure to use grease wherever a pad may touch the caliper. I didn’t use enough and one pad got stuck and I ate through it’s mate in short order and had to replace all the pads. I did much better the second time. But don’t get any grease between the pad and the rotor. Kinda defeats the purpose.
Since then, I’ve gotten the confidence up to replace the bearings in my wife’s van, run brand new brake lines for both front wheels on my truck and do a full tune up on my truck. And later this spring, I even plan on replacing the heads of my truck’s engine.
My car has drum brakes on the rear wheels. I tried but gave up in frustration having never gotten past the first step. I think I need some kind of special tool.
Youtube was an invaluable help for all my auto repairs. For the brake job, I would watch a bit on my computer, run out and do it, run back in to watch the next bit, etc… I didn’t have a tablet or a descent smartphone then. Now I can watch as I work.
Not really, although the tool that pushes and twists the keeper discs saves a lot of frustration over trying to use a socket, and a brake spring tool (looks like a small boot horn) is equally de-frustrating over a screwdriver. But you can do the whole job with basic hand tools, a lot of patience and a good, good diagram of the assembly.
But overall, drum brakes are a complicated, inefficient PITA and I’m glad to seem them largely obsolete.