I’m hoping to get some views on all the channeled material that’s all over the web these days? Its quite scary how popular it is. I’ve been listening to Bashar and the Pleiadian stuff a lot recently and whilst listening to the channeled material it sounds great & intelligent & inspiring, but afterwards I get an uneasy feeling inside that its all boloney alas. Further research on the web confirms my suspicions alas.
Currently I’m fairly sure that at least some of the mediums are not frauds and are not faking, and that the channeling is genuine, and that the information is coming from another entity or level or consciousness or some such thing. Anyone who has read the Seth / Jane Robert books or watched a video of her channeling Seth should be fairly convinced that Jane Roberts was not a fraud, and that channeling is real (like it or not). There are many more books around also that back this up: “The Betty Book”, “The Unobstructed Universe”, “The Law of One”, and the movie “Tuning In - Spirit Channelers In America” to name just some. I’m sure there are fakers out there that are just in it for the cash (its a very lucrative business after all), but not all of them are by any means.
The problem is that the information itself leaves a lot to be desired. The entity usually claims to be from another planet, or dimension, or both, full of good intentions, and then proceeds to produce copious amounts of highly detailed and interesting information, book-loads sometimes, but then things breaks down in some cases when they start making prophesies that do not occur - e.g. The Pleiadian’s planet wide dimension shift in 2012.
If you can agree with me that the material is coming for somewhere/someone/something else (it would take a lot to convince me otherwise from my experiences), my questions basically are who or what is producing this material? Why is inconsistent / erroneous at times? What is their agenda?
I do not think you will find anyone an this site who will tell you anything other than that their agenda is to part you from as much of your money as they can.
That’s a pity. Fighting ignorance & delusion is admirable and necessary (I’ve just spent an enjoyable day at rationalwiki.org - it led me here in the first place). Being closed-minded is something else. Still its early days, let’s see…
1/ I can’t agree with you that it’s coming from somewhere else. The people producing the material are the charlatans who spout it.
2/ Because it’s complete bullshit they make up to sucker you out of money and/or gain attention
3/ To gain attention or sucker you from your money.
Accusing others of being closed minded is easy. Presenting evidence that any of this stuff is not faked is a damn sight harder.
You say in your OP that you a fairly sure some mediums are not faking. Yet you present not one shred of evidence, or even any kind of reasoning, as to why or how you reach this conclusion.
Carl Sagan probably never said “It pays to keep an open mind, but not so open your brains fall out” but it’s darn good advice. Mediums have been channeling for centuries. Not one of them has ever presented an iota of solid evidence; OTOH, a gigantic percentage of them have been outed as sheer frauds with motives of money and notoriety when not outright delusional.
Yes, their stories do always break down. Because of that, your questions cannot be factually answered if you do not accept the answer “it’s being pulled of their asses.” The more pertinent question is, what is your agenda in believing them?
What types of highly detailed and interesting information have been produced? Since your second and third question require an agreement with the first we need more information about that question.
What material do you find highly detailed and interesting? What cites can you bring from reliable sources?
Anyway its hard to give evidence briefly. You would have to read at least a third of “Seth Speaks” and about the same of “The Unobstructed Universe”, but that doesn’t seem likely alas. They are from before all the money making racket came about, at least the latter is, and very descriptive about the whole process, results, etc.
I’ve personally had some “mystical” experiences myself which I don’t want to go into here, but just enough for me to know that there is defo. more going on than meets the eye. I’ve also used the pendulum enough in the past to know that there is definitely some other source than my conscious mind at work (yes I know I am moving the pendulum, of course, but something, 100% not my conscious mind, is causing me to move my muscles very slightly). If something can cause me to move my muscles without me consciously moving then, and in doing so produce intelligent coherent answers to specific questions, the same principle can be expanded to automatic writing and then also to channeling. Having said that, the pendulum is also not reliable all of the time, and can produce erroneous information from time to time much like the channelers do, and again, it would be nice to know why.
I’m not saying this is all coming from aliens or anything like that, it may all be the actions of the subconscious, but then again maybe not, I don’t know, maybe someone here has further insights, maybe not.
What kind of materials? To cut a channel in 6061-T6 aluminum, go at about 250 sfm for an HSS cutter, or 600 sfm if you’re using carbide. Use an end mill smaller than the channel you wish to cut and make (at least) two passes for the best surface finish. Always be sure that your workpiece is clamped solidly in place, but this is especially true if you wish to make deep cuts. Use as short an end mill as you can and keep the depth of cut less than half the diameter. These are of course only general guidelines targeted at a beginner.
If you want people to agree with the proposition that there is something behind channeling besides scams and delusions, you’ve come to the wrong place. That’s not because we’re “close-minded,” it’s because such claims have been examined and shredded any number of times on the board before.
Ok as a last attempt to get a decent answer from anyone in the rationalist camp (as I haven’t got a satisfactory one from the metaphysicals - the conspiracists are the only ones with answers to date, but their stuff is too freaky), may I suggest some of you try this 2 minute experiment if you have the time (and an open mind!):
[ol]
[li] Get a piece of thread of about an arm’s length[/li][li] Attach a small weighty object to one end (e.g. a button)[/li][li] On a page of A4 or similar paper draw two lines, one vertical and one horizontal, crossing in the center of the page[/li][li] Write the word “Yes” at the top and bottom of the vertical line[/li][li] Write the word “No” at the left and right of the horizontal line[/li][li] Wrap the other end of the thread around your finger[/li][li] Rest your elbow on the table so the center of the pendulum you just made hovers over the center of the crossed lines[/li][li] Calm yourself, and with a blank calm mind ask out loud “is my name John?” or whatever your name is[/li][li] Wait a bit to see if something happens[/li][li] Repeat asking if your name is something else that is not your name[/li][li] See if something happens[/li][/ol]
Nothing will probably happen for a lot of ye, but hopefully not all.
Right I need to sleep. I’ll be more able for the abuse in the morning hopefully. 'Night…
You just setup a test that, at most, after some repetition, will tell someone how suggestible they are. To test whether or not they are tapping into some “channeled material” from “another entity or level or consciousness or some such thing” you would need to ask the pendulum questions you don’t/can’t know the answers to beforehand.
Please don’t keep accusing people of having a closed mind just because they won’t uncritically accept something that you are dogmatically (maybe closed-mindedly) attached to.
Is that the best argument you can make for your case? If not, please present your best argument. What’s the best, most solid, convincing piece of evidence you believe exists in support of channeling?
So what you are saying is that the appropriate term for material produced by channelling is “swarf”? I wholeheartedly support this new terminology and intend to use it wherever possible.
Congratulations you have just set out a perfect way to demonstrate the Ideomotor Response, a well known and scientifically understood phenomenon. Do your experiment with the aid of an assistant or assistants running a number of double blind trials, for some of which you do and for some of which you don’t know the answer to the question. You will find (if you set your experiment up properly) that when you don’t know the answer, the technique doesn’t work.
Really, if you are at all serious about studying supposed “psychic” phenomenon you need to do some reading on skeptical websites to get a bit of balance. The ideomotor effect is very, very basic stuff and if you don’t know about it, you have a long way to go.
I would wager that people have been trying to make money out of pretending to have mystical powers since about five minutes after money was invented.
The Unobstructed Universe was published in 1940. I can assure you that “the money-making racket” has been around for considerably longer than 74 years.
