Look-I’ve read her books and seen enough of the videos to be reminded of the old saying, “Sincerity is everything. If you can fake that, you’ve got it made.” The fact that you and an untold number of others are convinced is only evidence that she was good at convincing people. None of the books, and none of the videos I’ve seen so far, contain a scrap of evidence that show that she was capable of channeling anything other than her own imagination backed by her heavily detailed notes. Everything she supposedly channeled about history or science was either already known or completely wrong-in all her years she added absolutely no new knowledge to our database.
Again I ask: What is the best evidence you’ve got that channeling is real?
Solid evidence would be if somebody was able to produce information via channeling that they didn’t already have. It’s kind of pointless for a channeler to ask what their own name is.
The first thing we should be asking is why these entities from other planets or dimensions speak modern English. If we can settle that issue, we can ask them questions that the channeler doesn’t have the answers to. That will determine if the entity is actually a separate independent source of information or just an aspect of the channeler’s own mind.
Actually, it isn’t different, for all intents and purposes.
Unless you are claiming that they are channeling lying jackasses, of course.
This is exactly the point and what is worrying.
Ah, so there are aliens or spirits who have vast powers and abilities, and are just fucking with us?!
How is this distinguishable from people just fucking with us?
Or of course the information coming from the subconscious or collective conscious (if ye guys accept that kind of thing, not sure if Jung is allowed in mainstream rational thought or not) is either deliberately false or being misinterpreted in some strange otherwise coherent manner.
I think the fact that they could be aliens or spirits makes this distinguishable. Or, again, is it or own mind (or the collective mind) fucking with us?
There is a million dollar prize available to anyone who can demonstrate under controlled lab conditions that they have paranormal powers. The prize money has been building up since 1964 by The James Randi Educational Foundation.
See http://web.randi.org/the-million-dollar-challenge.html
Between 1964 and 1982 over 650 people had applied. Between 1997 and 2005, there had been a total of 360 official, notarized applications. New applications for the Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge continue to be received every month.
To date the prize has not been won.
Maybe **all **the sources of this supposed channeling are strangely and consistently allergic to being tested whilst adhering to the standards of scientific rigor or there is something else going on - one of which could be the whole thing is a fiction known to the channel.
Why does the OP think the prize has not been won?
I asked my pendulum “do psychic powers exist” and it swung to “No”.
I don’t quite know what to make of that.
Yes I was watching his videos yesterday funny enough. Its interesting.
So this would seem to suggest the subconscious mind is producing all this material, possibly from a pool of current sci-fi/fantasy collective consciousness being generated by the race as a whole?
Its definitely a nicer idea than that of malicious spirits or aliens trying to mess with us.
If you are invoking Freudian Theory and/or Jung, then the terms you probably mean are the unconscious and the collective unconscious. To the best of my knowledge, there is no scientific confirmation that these have any reality in the form that Jung or Freud envisioned them.
Do you have any evidence to give us that channeling is real?
That’s how con artists work. They win your confidence. The best ones are above suspicion. If they couldn’t sucker people into their scams, they’d go out of business.
I have definitely seen table dancing caused by spirits. A couple of old hants called Jim Beam and Jack Daniels.
I have personally witnessed table dancing. However the spirits were extra and served by the waitress.
Again, malicious spirits or aliens providing us with false, unverifiable, or common information is an un-falsifiable hypothesis. It’s not scientific so it can’t be studied.
It’s essentially the same idea as those who fight the evidence for evolution with the idea that God put all those false fossils in place and made them appear old in every way in order to fool us. You can’t disprove the idea that some supernatural entity is acting in a way that provides no new information or testable evidence.
Suppose I told you that I have a document that was given to me by aliens with supernatural powers. But, for reasons I can’t explain, it’s identical to my normal weekly grocery shopping list. What evidence could there possibly be that would disprove this?
This is supposed to make be believe in this stuff less??? I’d never heard of Leonora Piper till now. Quite amazing, some people here should have a listen.
Yes its pretty lame indeed, but that is (according to Mr. Tymn) from another communication made by a different spirit to a different medium, and takes nothing away from Leonara Piper herself or her life’s work, the studies performed, etc.
So thanks for directing me to that.
Fair enough, I’m not trying to prove anything (mainly because I have no answer) - I was asked why I believe channelling is genuine (in some cases) and gave my reasons. Malicious aliens / spirits is just one possible scenario of many.