Jusr finished re-reading the last 3 Dune books (God-Emperor, Heretics, and Chapterhouse), and I have some questions.
MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD
The two elderly folks in the garden that Duncan Idaho saw visions of. What was up with that? The last chapter with them indicates they are Face Dancers, but what was that ‘net’ about? Were they capturing people “Scattering” with it somehow, and how did Duncan’s erasing data in the no-ship erase the net?
I realize these questions perhaps were to be answered in the next book, and maybe will be when his son writes Dune 7 from Frank Herbert’s notes.
Also, I’ve read that many have wondered what the Honered Matres were running from; but Murbella pretty much gives it away when she tells her Honered Matre council “Would you return defenseless to face the ones with many faces? Would you become vegetables?” Clearly, the ones of many faces are the Tleilaxu Face Dancers, and “becoming vegetables” is being made into an axlotl tank.
When Mua’dib comes from the desert He will answer your questions.
Really though, good question. I have only read the entire series once and was left with a great big WHAAAA? after Chapterhouse. I re-read the series recently and when I got to Chapterhouse I could not the book in my house so I’ve not re-read the final book to get a better understanding of what the heck happened. Interestingly, Chapterhouse is the only one in the series that caused me so much confusion on the first read and I was looking forward to clarifying my questions on the story.
It’s been several years so I may have some of the details wrong…
The net was a representation of their ability to see future event paths and possibilities, not a physical net as such. Leto’s Golden Path was ultimately intended at setting humanity free from future determinacy and predictabitlity to insure humanities ultimate survival. While the no-ship still held that data, determinacy could still be maintained with the Face Dancer’s prescience, but erasing the data restored the Golden Path and the net vanished as a result.
It contained all sorts of info. about where they folded space from, their past, etc. That’s been wiped out, and Duncan and co. are now TRULY untraceable–and can never go back to where they came from. So Marty and Daniel don’t know where they went, and can’t mess with them any more.
Actually, I think “becoming vegetables” refers to the bio-weapon the face dancers in the scattering used vs. the HMs–one that destroyed their minds, leaving them as vegetables. That’s the main reason the HM’s were interested in the Bene Gesserit–they wanted their inherent immunity to disease.
Remember, that the NoShip that Duncan et al escaped on contained the last Tleilaxu master, and nobody ever trusted them. Hell, Daniel and Marty didn’t trust them either and made some comment about his attempt to whistle commands. I guess that if he got the chance the Tleilaxu master (Waff?) would have tried to go back to the old empire and reestablish his society.
I’ll mention it again since it plays into the more recent Dune books, even though most people don’t consider them cannon. The book Butlerian Jihad makes the case that perhaps the HM are running from machine intelligence sent out by the Evermind.
As far as the net that Duncan saw the old couple through… it isn’t fully explained since it is the manifestation of a ‘talent’ that Duncan has, that was previously unknown. Of course everything about that Duncan was an unknown.
Interesting discussion. I had the same questions after I’d read it. At first I thought I just didn’t get it, since I also had trouble understanding the first Dune novels. Herbert leaves a lot of things suggested, assuming you’re smart enough to connect the dots. However, with Chapterhouse Dune I’m thinking he was going to explain those things in later books which unfortunately he never got around to writing.
Still, the suggestions here make sense. I’ll have to read it again to see whether it fully fits in. However, as I remember it, the old couple was never properly identified (where were they? where did they come from? how did they get their powers?).
The one couple in Duncan’s visions said something like - I was going to play a joke on the Tlieaxu master by telling him I was god or something like that.
Is that a possibility? There seemed to be something very strange and ethereal about those “net” people, but then they had the whole explanation about face dancers and they got away from Tlieaxu from years of absorbing memories and thoughts.
What is the book after this one I can read that his son wrote? He didn’t cover any of these topics?
I dont think hes done milking his father legacy enough to get around to writing that one yet, and I wouldnt foster the Dune stuff he has written on anyone.
re the data wipe on the no-ship, it wasnt “Just” the wipe that was important. Duncan wiped all of the navigational data from the banks and essentially sent them off to a random part of the universe that was unknown to everyone even Duncan himself. (at least that is my memory of the way it went down, its been awhile since I read it.
Wanna bet? Probably a crime in most states, but he’s milked his father’s legacy (hur, hur) way past that point.
Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson (btw, has he written anything worthwhile ever?) wrote two sequels to Chapterhouse: “Sandworms of Dune” and “Hunters of Dune”. I haven’t read any of the other Dune prequels or side stories they wrote, but they leave no doubt these two books tie into those books as well (i.e. “buy our other books!”).
They’re not worth reading, and I could only wish them upon my worst enemies. I could almost feel the novels destroying brain cells.
They are, in theory, based on an outline by Frank Herbert for a Chapterhouse sequel found on a random floppy disk lying around (outline for “Dune 7”). It might be true, but it’s also true they almost certainly changed several bits and filled out the exposition.
Also, on the note of legacies and whatnot, the last novel Frank Herbert wrote was co-written with Brian (“Man of Two Worlds”), and it is about as atrocious as those sequels. That’s a real shame for a novelist that’s written so much better stuff.
Can’t remember where I read it, probably a.f.d, but aren’t Daniel and Marty theorized to be author proxies for Herbert and his wife Beverly? She died shortly before C: D was published, IIRC.