He’s being charged as an adult, which means he’s eligible for life in prison without parole.
And…I’m not comfortable with that. It is a horrible, heinous crime and I absolutely feel he needs to be punished, severely and for a long time but…he’s 15. Still a kid. No history of petty crime, no history of abuse in the family, nothing that says he’s a sociopath that was working his way up to this. A bit moody and angsty, but no more than your average 15-year-old boy. Nothing that says he’s not redeemable.
We have a separate juvenile justice system for a reason - because children who commit crimes (even awful ones) are still children - their brains are not fully developed, their sense of right and wrong and consequences are not complete, their ability to be influenced by others is much higher, and with treatment they hopefully have a higher chance of going out and being productive members of society than adult criminals.
I can see charging an older teen as an adult sometimes - when they have a long juvenile rap sheet, when they’re nearly 18 and have a long list of bad decisions in their past that shows very few good decisions in their future - but in this case, it just sits wrong with me.
What do you think about the idea of charging children as adults, in general and in this case?
I’m uncomfortable about this particular case too, but there is a lynch mob mentality going on right now due to the horrible way he treated that girl. If the death penalty were a possibility, I’m sure lots of people locally would be eager to see him go that route.
However, is it not true that, if he were treated as a juvenile, then his incarceration would have to end at 21? If that is the case then I can better understand why the state wants to treat him as an adult.
There needs to be some alternative between juvenile/released at 21 and adult/incarcerated for life. There are too many teens going to jail for life just because 5 or 6 years is not enough time for the crime they committed - not enough time for rehabilitation, if that is the goal, and certainly not enough time for punishment.
Having said that, how many people are in jail for drug “crimes” who shouldn’t be there at all? I’d weep for them before I’d weep for this kid.
In many states a 15 year old can start taking drivers ed. If they can be trusted to operate a motor vehicle than it certainly is an age they should know that kidnapping, sexual assault and murder is wrong.
BTW, I thought Miller V Alabama said life w/o parole for Juvi offenders was unconstitutional.
In how man of those states can they get an unrestricted drivers license at age 15? The state either says they have the judgment of an adult, or it does not.
I think his crime was horrific, but at the same time, all killing or jailing him for life would accomplish is destroying another kid.
Now, with that said, a part of me does feel like what he did was so terrible that we shouldn’t take any chances. And I do think society expects him to pay the full price for it, and if he got off easy he might be a victim of reprisal. So I really don’t know. I like the idea of rehabilitation and I don’t advocate bloodlust, but when I think about what he did it makes it hard to feel that much for him. Same with the guy who killed Elin Krantz (don’t Google her name, you will be sorry).
It’s never made sense to me to try children as adults, though. We don’t try adults as children when they commit non-serious crimes, so why try a kid as an adult because their crime is serious?
BTW - am I the only person who finds the fact he tortured and duct taped her more disturbing than the fact he raped and murdered her? I feel like it really “ups the ante” so to speak - it’s definitely serial killer behavior. It implies to me that he took pleasure in causing her harm rather than being motivated by self-gratification. I want to think this kid is just socially inept and extremely disturbed because that’s what the news I’ve read make him sound like, but when I picture what he might have done to her in my head it makes me fear that he’s just plain evil.
Can we expound on that, can they vote? How about drink? How about join the military?
Add this to just another of the long list of why “adulthood” should all come at the same time, for whatever age is deemed appropriate. But no one should be able to just change the age, on a whim.
I think this case is a good example of why we shouldn’t have closed all the insane asylums. It should be interesting to see how they rule. I’m guessing life, California doesn’t mess around. Death is off the table, it was ruled unconstitutional.
The idea isn’t that they don’t know these things are wrong, but instead that they are less able to conform their conduct to what they know is right than an adult because of the nature of their undeveloped brains.
Correct. Doesn’t matter how this kid is tried, he can’t get LWOP.
Agree with that. They’re are deemed unable to drive, drink, vote, agree to sex, sign a contract, etc…, because lack of maturity, of experience, of self-control, prefontal cortex not fully developed and so on but then suddenly they’re supposed to be exactly as responsible as adults when they do something wrong? Doesn’t make sense to me.
My first answer to the OP would be that they should never be charged as adults. I’m willing to be convinced otherwise.
ETA : reminds me of this two British boys (8 yo?) who murdered a little kid (3 yo?). Many people thought they should have received a life sentence, even at this age.
Is that so? Can an adult have sex with a 15 year-old in these states? Can a 15 year-old choose to star in a porn movie? To join the army? The law says they cannot do this, because they are not mature enough to make responsible decisions. So should they really be held reponsible for the decisions they make in the same way that adults are?
I’m sorry Not because of the murder description, because I ended up not reading much about it, but because I discovered “metapedia, the alternative ancyclopedia”
We’re not the ones that translated “15 is old enough to start taking drivers ed classes” into the ability to have an adult drivers license, then equated that with being old enough to be tried as an adult.
“Rashness” ?
“lessened moral” compass?
Willingness to take risks?
Inability to understand consequences?
Yeah, those 4 elements that the Supreme Court lists might be relevant for some juvenile crimes. Maybe they’re relevant as excuses for why teenagers do silly stuff like shoplifting, or driving fast. Experiences that are rash, risky, a little immoral, but the kid thinks he won’t get caught to face the consequences .
But this is a case of premeditated murder! He didn’t just kill somebody accidently.
He planned it in advance (so it doesn’t match the Supreme Court’s concept of teenage “Rashness”).
He committed acts of terrible ,inexcusable, cruelty…(so it doesn’t match the Court’s concept of slightly “lessened moral culpability”)
And every 15 year old kid knows that murder is damn serious…so it doesn’t match the Court’s concept of “inability to understand consequences”
This isn’t just a teenage risky “mistake”.
This specific kid , for these crimes, deserves to be given the full penalty as an adult.
Not because of the murder description, because I ended up not reading much about it, but because I discovered “metapedia, the alternative ancyclopedia”