ChatGPT says RFK and Sargent Shriver were "brilliant" or "one of most brightest minds in JFK's admin"

In My Humble Opinion
1

Sometimes GPT is helpful, sometimes it’s a mess, but I question its answers to my question: “Who are widely regarded as the brightest cabinet members, advisors, or assistants of John F. Kennedy?”

I knew Robert McNamara, McGeorge Bundy, Arthur Schlesinger, and Ted Sorenson would top the list, but GPT identified Robert Kennedy first, noting “he was one of the brightest minds in the administration. Despite his youthful image and sometimes brash demeanor, he was incredibly sharp, with a deep understanding of the law, justice, and social issues…” About Sargent Shriver, GPT said he “was a brilliant and innovative mind.” Really? The statement that RFK was one of the most brilliant minds in the administration requires a comparison not only with the four men identified above, but also with George Ball, Dean Rusk, and Joseph Alsop. I understand the mystique of Camelot, but still … RFK never academically distinguished himself as a student at Harvard or in prep school.

2

RFK was one of JFK’s closest advisors on the Cuban Missile Crisis, and a clear counterweight to the “nuke 'em” guys.

Since no nukes flew and we all survived, that makes him one of JFK’s best advisors in my book.

3

I had a similar thought. While of course I’m not saying GPT is correct, I do agree that the question is highly subjective. While McNamara, for example, might have had a reputation (deserved or not) for genius in some circles, in others he may be considered facially ineligible for being regarded as among Kennedy’s brightest advisors. Largely for his many sins as Secretary of Defense (and not just as assessed by anti-war, anti-inverventionists, but also by detractors within the military establishment).

Arguably, McNamara was a man who sounded smart and certainly had the kind of pedigree we are used to associating with “brilliance,” but then many of his supposedly “brilliant” ideas didn’t exactly pan out in reality. For example:

And, again, that says nothing of the war crimes that people on the left (the actual left) are liable to bring up over McNamara and Vietnam.

4

^^And a doc that airs occasionally on TCM about McNamara showed that he was one of the team members pushing the firebombing of Tokyo. He admitted that would have grounds for war crimes.

RFK always came across to me as weak and wimpy. However, a documentary I saw on the Kennedy clan some years ago painted him as one of the most hard-nosed. Wish I could remember more details, but that was my thought at the time.

5

Wimpy people don’t go after the mob and force mob witnesses in cross-examination before Congress to take the 5th over 300 times. Bobby did, as chief counsel to the United States Senate Select Committee on Improper Activities in Labor and Management.

Which isn’t to say he did a good job. His lack of experience as a trial lawyer showed through in his poor cross-examinations, bullying witnesses and getting into shouting matches, and he was accused of using the witnesses’ reliance on the 5th as proof of their guilt, undercutting their constitutional protections and respect generally for the Constitution.

But wimp? No.

6

Don’t let your opinion of junior’s obvious lunacy color your opinion of his dad.

7

Sorry if I missed it but who or what is GPT?

8

The Chat thing. AI.

9

McNamara may have been a brilliant businessman, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into brilliance when it comes to governing (see Hoover, Herbert, et al) I don’t know that RFK was “brilliant” (I’ve usually heard that term used only for Sorenson) but He understood JFK, who trusted him, and he had a unique ability to cut through the clutter of different advisers giving different advice and presenting a clear path for JFK.

As for Shriver, as the first director of the Peace Corps, he managed to take a feel-good idea that had bounced around Washington for a decade, defined its goals, built its structure, lobbied Congress for funding (while letting JFK take all the credit), and keep the CIA from turning it into an auxiliary spy service. Again, maybe not “brilliant” but a clear-thinker who could get things done.

10

Ya don’t say.

11

RFK was quite hard nosed, IMHO. He had a checkered history in the 1950s. He started out working for Joe McCarthy in the red scare hearings. Eventually decided that was bad (supposedly) but later ended up working with Roy Cohn in later hearings. But decided to go against all that and made himself an enemy of Cohn.

His time as counsel for a Senate anti-racketeering comm. made him an anti-organized crime crusader which put him at odds with Hoover when RFK became AG. That took guts.

As to social issues, he was a standard clueless twit on poverty and racial issues. So he had to be talked into actually working for school desegregation, for instance. He started to pre-campaign for PotUS in Appalachia and met with Civil Rights leaders. He started to come around and became popular with people he previously didn’t know or care much about.

So, some not good stuff in his background but by the time of his death he had changed quite a bit.

Now, “clever”? Well, to some extent but clearly not a top mind. Failing to even know much about people at the tail end of society for most of his life doesn’t sound clever to me.

Shriver “clever”. Nope. His job with Peace Corps was seen as a sop to an otherwise nobody bil. He certainly didn’t show much during the 1972 campaign.

12

Bobby Kennedy was seventh of nine children and was so overshadowed by elder brothers Joe (Joe Sr’s clear favorite), John F. Kennedy, and even Teddy, that RFK was always looking to distinguish himself and win dad’s approval, which was only conditionally bestowed. Truth told, father Joe Sr. had written off RFK as a mediocrity while he was still struggling in prep school, so in his quest to win approval, RFK became that tough, scrappy, pugnacious little SOB who athletically was always trying to beat you, crush you, humiliate you – though let us concede that the prep school football teams filled with rich, entitled white boys back then would get mauled by any competitive HS team today. Despite his sub-par academic performance, RFK sailed into Harvard on his father’s name and wealth, yet again floundered academically. I read years ago that he wasn’t particularly liked or admired in prep school or at Harvard, probably because he was always trying to show you that he was better than you, and certainly tougher. He had a huge chip on his shoulder. Ultimately, RFK was the small dog that wouldn’t back down from a fight. He fearlessly took on the mobs, at great risk to his safety.

But, later in life, he reinvented himself as a crusader for the poor and defenseless, and that’s when and where RFK’s real “brilliance” shone, though as noted above, he let his elder brother, JFK, take credit for RFK’s achievements, which JFK was only too happy to do, as he also did with Ted Sorenson’s excellent book, “Profiles in Courage.”

Several of JFK’s cabinet members and top aides were academic standouts. McGeorge Bundy was brilliant. Robert McNamara graduated summa cum laude at top-ranked Berkeley and was a brilliant standout in Harvard’s MBA program. Unfortunately, McNamara was book smart but history dumb. McNamara thought the Vietnam War could be won by turning it into an equation and then winning with superior numbers. Getting back to my OP, RFK was never known for his “brilliant” mind, but that shows the power of Camelot and the limitations of GPT.

BTW, I love this from GPT: “Robert McNamara, often described as brilliant, earned this reputation for a combination of his educational achievements, professional successes, and the profound impact he had in various key roles, most notably as the U.S. Secretary of Defense under Presidents John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson during the 1960s.”

Today, McNamara is regarded as a colossal failure as U.S. Sec of Defense for leading this country deeper and deeper into the quagmire that was Vietnam – and lying to the America by telling everyone we were winning.

13

You mean ChatGPT?

I reran your query with them–and there was no mention of Sargent Shriver.

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Perhaps it changed its mind?

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> I reran your query with them–and there was no mention of Sargent Shriver.

“GPT” is a popular shorthand for ChatGPT. GPT’s answers depend on how you phrase your question. It’s hypersensitive that way. This is what it said about SS:

  • Brilliance: Sargent Shriver was another brilliant member of Kennedy’s inner circle, known for his role in creating and leading the Peace Corps. Shriver’s intellectual abilities were evident in his work organizing the first major U.S. foreign aid program designed to assist developing nations.
  • Education and Background: Shriver was educated at Yale Law School, where he was known for his sharp mind and leadership. His success in leading the Peace Corps demonstrated his ability to apply intellectual and practical solutions to global problems.
  • Legacy: Shriver’s legacy includes not only his Peace Corps work but also his contributions to domestic programs like Head Start and the War on Poverty.

Clearly, GPT has a different understanding of “brilliant,” but I did learn that SS graduated third in his class at Yale Law School, so he was no slouch academically.

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Excluding the comments about each person, here is what I got:

Who are widely regarded as the brightest cabinet members, advisors, or assistants of John F. Kennedy?
ChatGPT said:

John F. Kennedy’s administration is often remembered for the exceptional caliber of individuals who served in his Cabinet, as advisors, or as key assistants. Many of these figures were considered among the brightest minds of their time, contributing to the reputation of Kennedy’s team as a “Brain Trust.” Some of the most widely regarded members include:
Cabinet Members:
Robert F. Kennedy (Attorney General)
Dean Rusk (Secretary of State)
Robert S. McNamara (Secretary of Defense)
Douglas Dillon (Secretary of the Treasury)

Advisors and Assistants:
Theodore Sorensen (Special Counsel and Speechwriter)
McGeorge Bundy (National Security Advisor)
Arthur Schlesinger Jr. (Special Assistant for Latin American Affairs).
Pierre Salinger (Press Secretary)
Walt Rostow (Deputy National Security Advisor)

Other Notable Figures:
John Kenneth Galbraith (Ambassador to India)
Adlai Stevenson (Ambassador to the United Nations)

Legacy:
JFK’s team is remembered for its intellectual rigor and ambition, often reflecting the president’s own vision of leadership. While their decisions were not without controversy, particularly regarding Vietnam, their collective achievements in areas such as civil rights, foreign policy, and economic reform have cemented their reputation as one of the most talented and capable groups of policymakers in U.S. history.

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You can always ask GPT for its reasoning and even ask it for a citation.

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also, RFK pushed JFK into sending troops down South during 60’s

19

Smart is not the same as wise. You can be brilliant and still make stupendously wrong decisions.

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I’m slightly amused to note that in Marvel Comics, a Senator named Dell Rusk turned out to be a cover for the disguised supervillain Red Skull. Probably a coincidence.