In Australia our rightwing media, that is our commercial media, depicts the foreign capitalist backed middle class revolt in Venezuela as some kind of justified popular revolt. However more truthful alternative media sources such as Indymedia or the Socialist Worker have explained that Chavez is in fact a popular leader with the ardent support of the working majority. The strikes are about the whining middle and upper classes wanting what little power and privilege they may have lost back, at the expense of the worker naturally. However Chavez, being leftwing, believes in inalienable Human Rights and therefore he believes in welfare and workers rights, both are obstacles to profiteering.
Our media loves to show the violence of the police and military against the privileged demonstrators of Venezuela, trying to convince people that in this particular instance civil disobedience must be justified because the rich back it. Like Palestinian deaths, our media plays down the killings of Chavez supporters. There was a coup lead by military offices and bosses in April last year that forced Chavez out of office for several days, it took massive demonstrations by ordinary working class people to put him back where the democratic process put him. It is a shame Chavez is so ready to use the army rather then his popular support against the business lead strike, this gives his opponents a convenient propaganda tool against him.
Keep an eye on this situation, the right may give us another Chile 1973 style coup, one that cost workers a lot of lives.
To read more about what is actually happening in Venezuela and all over the world, I would recommend visiting this site.
Halo13 thanks for the view from down under.
Unlike many I don’t automatically disregard news sources that are leftist in nature, the only test for me is if they are right in a situation, in this case I analyzed the news from the largest newspapers from Venezuela, and even though Chavez and everybody else knew a coup had occurred the papers behaved in the most inflammatory and unprofessional way.
I have seen Central American newspapers during the civil war (hiding killings of the death squads) behaving like this, yet some papers still had dissenting views of the situation. In Venezuela, while even vheadline had opposing views published, the Major papers in Venezuela, besides calling everything a democratic action, had the gall of even not allowing dissenting views in the letters to the editors at least a week after the coup. Since then, I stopped relying on them.
And many thanks to DDG again.
While that was not the report I remembered, (I later posted the one) the connections of some right wing Cuban-Americans are there, hard to ignore that when an owner of the misleading media in Venezuela was one.
Here is a view from France:
Seeing how people like Nanu are still being subject to fake history, I have to say that the big media in Venezuela are not in denial now, but actively lying to the Venezuelan people.
Yes, I guess because we said so means that automatically we discredit them.
Frankly, I did not gave those sources the time of day before, but following what you see in photos from those sources, and what the mainstream says is the truth, I have to say their reliability has increased. In any case I do not trust them 100%; however, while the coup occurred, verification from reporters of the Irish times (on location) and other press from Australia confirmed many of their info; so, always do research before just doing opinion drive-bys.
There are those who defend Chávez as doing what is “right” and blame the middle and upper classes for doing what is “wrong” but this is just cheap propaganda. Those who oppose Chávez re the majority and they are no less Venezuelan and have no less rights than those who support him. The fact is that Chávez has divided the country and become a disaster to the economy and that is bad for the entire country, whether you are with him or against him. Destroying a country is the wrong thing to do even if done for the right reasons.
Face it GIGObuster, if Chavez actually had a majority, he would have gone along with the consultive referendum and humiliated the opposition, and as far as me having being subject to fake history, I don’t know about you, but I personally lived through the events that took place here in April and saw them with my own eyes.
I already faced that Nanu, you are not paying attention like the opposition.
None in the opposition has more support than him. his removal by force (something some members of the opposition have not ruled out) will generate more unrest.
Anyhow, bringing that referendum back is like crying over spilled milk, AFAICR that consulting referendum was just shot down by the courts, and even if done, it was as useful as the marihuana initiatives in the US, federal law is free to ignore proposals like that and Chavez would have done so. Carter’s proposals are the ones on the table right now, what you guys have to face is also the reality that even the BBC noticed that 73 percent of Venezuelans want a NEGOCIATED settlement of this mess. So it is also the opposition that has to cool it down.
If you had paid attention you will have noticed also that I do not approve of Chavez, I am however also sick of the opposition: Amnesty international has pointed that both Chavez and the opposition are not clean on rights, so I still go back to recommend negotiations and procedure. (Sorry: Chavez remains for a while)
Considering that the media is keeping the charade of the coup, and propping up opposition leaders that were in favor of the coup, I would think that there is a lot of cleanup the opposition has to do so more people will trust them.
GIGObuster: First of all, the removal of Chavez by force is not taken seriously by anyone anymore nor promoted in any way by the opposition. Of course we all want a negotiated settlement, for one, I want to go back to class, I’ve been doing absolutely nothing for over a month, the problem is that neither side can step down. The strike will not end if Chavez doesn’t cut us some sort of slack somewhere. We’ve been at this for a nearly two months and no one has the power (nor the guts) to really stop the strike without some sort of victory. And it has been shown that the party that is least willing to negotiate is the government, Chavez has even threatened to pull out of negotiations. It’s simple logic, business owners are loosing millions every day, of course that the are going to be willing to negotiate, it is the government that doesn’t budge.
About the media: I know that the Venezuelan media is not at all impartial, this is of course because what is really happening in Venezuela is a MEDIA WAR. Neither the private channels nor VTV are giving the real story, and I am aware of this. It’s like in any war: In Vietnam, the US would print some version of a story, the commies another, both with their bits of lies. You simply chose your side and what story you chose to believe in most. If there is something I’ve learned from all of this is to never believe what you read to be the whole truth. A clear example of this can be seen the quote you mentioned in your previous post: The writer compares VTV with the BBC and the CBC, is this comparison really necessary? It’s just In there to give VTV more prestige and give a little subtle spin to the facts. If only you could see some of the incredible lies that I have heard on VTV!! I agree that there in no truly objective journalism today in Venezuela, but this is because the media is at WAR and both sides distort the truth.
The argument that the referendum was thrown out by the courts is moot, the Venezuelan courts are completely politicized, a certain verdict simply depends on who the judges involved were. There is a big fight between the opposition and Chavez for control of the courts, and Chavez simply won this round.
I personally know many PDVSA workers (that have risked their jobs for the rest of us) and they are not all saboteurs. I’m sure that there was not a sabotage scheme nearly as big as Chavez claims, he can’t get the oil industry up and running simply because the people who know how to get it running are on strike.
I back that statement Nanu. This media thing is going too far. It seems that both sides are trying to see who can make up the biggest lie.
But when you live here, you learn to distinguish (very much)between the lies and the truths of the information. I’m not saying that I can’t be fooled, but I can tell you that the only thing VTV does is suck Chavez’s d***. That channel I give 0 credibility. Maybe they sometimes say the truth, but I choose not to believe the twisted information that’s been delivered by them.
Of course I take into account that War of words, of course logically that would mean that one has to see the results to check who is closer to the truth.
Then I compare what the private media was saying and on the whole that affirmation that the government cannot get the oil industry up is not adequate to say the least, vheadline therefore is closer to the truth.
Together with another Vheadline report that Chavez would win a referendum, but barely, against a unified opposition. I would say that there are indeed people that are not poor that would vote for him again.
I am skeptical not only of the Private media, but of all media. I do know that I saw one opposition member call for the head of Chavez, but since there is no other verifying source out there I will take from there that at least the opposition has learned the lesson not to get rid of Chavez by force, but having members that were in favor of the coup is still bad IMO.
Remember, the oil industry is not just oil production (which is still below half of the usual production), it’s also oil refinement. And this is the critical part that Chavez has not been able to start up. This is why my brother spent 12 hours in line to fill up his car just the other day. I’m not kidding, 12 hours. Does that seem normal to you, in a country were a liter of gas goes for 5 cents??? does that seem like the oil industry is up and running???
If you LOOK for middle class chavistas, I’m sure you’ll find, they are out there, but they are a rare species. I’m middle class and of all the people I know, including friends, classmates, teachers, family members, neighbors and so on, I can name maybe 5 middle class chavistas. BBC looked for a middle class chavista to put in this article so that it would be a more balanced peace comparing what he says with the quote of an antichavista that follows.
The thing of some (an isolated minority) opposition members being in favor of the coup is difficult for foreigners to understand. Take into account that in Venezuela there have been 3 coups in the last ten years and 7 in the last 100, with two dictatorships to boot. Chavez himself was a coup leader and this did not at all diminish his popularity (it actually increased it). The last dictator in Venezuela, who ruled in the 1950´s, was not your typical bloodthirsty brute, Venezuela achieved great levels of progress during his reign. So military coups are part of the Venezuelan culture, and although they are frowned upon, they are not viewed as harshly as they are abroad. (please don’t take this statement to mean that I was in favor of the coup, I’m just explaining some Venezuelan culture and why certain sectors of the population are in favor of the coup).
Not much attention again, I see; the guy on the quote does not consider himself a Chavista, but this shows why you have trouble finding people that will vote for Chavez among your group: I get from your post that they will be ostracized if they show any change with your point of view, therefore they play along. They will vote for Chavez because they cannot stomach what the opposition is doing or ignore it. My point is that you guys may feel good that the media is on your side, but to me it gets tiresome to then find that the people voted for the other guy (I have the felling the private media was predicting something else in the last election no?)
In other words: I do now that kind of environment you are from, I came from your same level, the only difference is that it was Central America, and I have seen this tale before. Yes you can be fooled. If the opposition does not stop thinking they are holier than the other ones (and vice versa) this will get worse.
What it is clear to me is that the majority is in reality not in favor of one or the other, they will IMO will vote for the one that they perceive is less at fault with this. As I see it in the subject of oil, it insults my intelligence that you expect everybody will support the same group that caused this state of shortages, only because they decided to get Chavez. It may make sense to you for many it does not. Same for the opposition having leaders that supported the coup, the point of the constitution that was voted for by everybody was to prevent the reliance on coups.
And how nice that you had benevolent dictators. I remember those and they were benevolent because they had the press in their pocket. In those cases terrible abuses that would have prevented from declaring him benevolent were never reported, never remembered, so they never happened. :rolleyes:
Which is what would be happening if the coup had succeeded.
If by this you mean that the private media said that Chavez was going to lose, hen you are wrong. Everybody knew that Chavez was going to win in both elections he participated.
And Nanu never said anything about a benevolent dictator. He said that Venezuela reached a great level of progress in his (Marcos Pérez Jiménez) ruling He never said that the dictatorship didn’t have control of the media, or that it cared for human rights.
I was doubthful because I did not check that far back on the press. Still my experience tells me that there was no respect for Chavez on the private press then.
Your second point though is not clear IMO:
When one describes someone as “not your typical bloodthirsty brute” the implication is that they are the opposite, hence benevolent. YMMV.
Forgot to ask: if the private media is at war, why trust their reports? So far I see virtually no separation of your posts from the points of the private media in Venezuela.
I don’t quite get your point, are you somehow mad that not everyone voted for Chavez?
Why does the media owe any respect for Chavez? They are entitled to their point of view.
After a dictator is ousted from power, the stories of human rights violations always pop up. They are not forgotten (people don’t forget that sort of thing) as you put it. My point is that Marcos Pérez Jiménez did not have such a horrible human rights record as other dictators, nothing more.
In my book, the person quoted by the BBC is Chavista by definition. He says that he would vote for Chavez, and since after a referendum anyone can later run for office, he is saying that he would rather have Chavez instead of ANYONE else that might later run for office. You seem to have a small confusion: one thing is a person who considers himself part of the opposition (he opposes Chavez), another thing is the opposition leadership. I don’t agree with many of the policies that the opposition leadership have taken and I might not feel they are any good, but I still want Chavez out, so I am part of the opposition. Of course, the problem is that in this war, we opposition people must show a united front against Chavez and for this reason we put up with some of the blunders our leadership have made in order to not show weakness.
Two more things, what Central American country are you specifically referring to? and please stop saying I’m not paying attention, it’s very annoying.
As someone who’s been to Caracas, this statement conforms with what I know firsthand, and that was several years ago, when times were better.
What I saw: hungry people, half-clothed children begging for change on the main commcerical strip, oil executives living in gated estates on the hillsides with private armed militias standing guard, favelas everywhere. There is simply no excuse for the dismal state of the poor in Venezuela.
Having said that, I do not like Chavez’ actions (meeting with Castro, Saddam, etc.), but he was indeed democractically elected, and that’s that, as far as I’m concerned. Those who oppose him and his reforms have learned a painful lesson about ignoring problems and hunger. I did not wish this to happen, but I remember thinking it simply made sense to me when he was elected.
Nanu, I hope things work out for you and everybody in Venezuela!
Thanks anonplz… I hope so too (although things look grimmer every day, it’s as if both sides are trying to see who can destroy the country the fastest).
I couldn’t agree with you more, Chavez is the result of past governments’ mishandling of the country, but he is also not the solution. I would not like to see the previous political parties come back into power after Chavez is gone, hopefully new leadership will emerge in this country after all this mess.
The fact that he was democratically elected maybe so, but every day he becomes more and more like a dictator, and that is why we want him out. Is a person who seeks to controll all aspects of government not a dictator? He controlls the executive, legislative, and judiciary branches of the government and now also wants controll over the electoral body (which scares me very much since I see it difficult to win a referendum against Chavez if his people are in controll of the electoral body). Do you see the urgency in getting him out?
