Other options in a similar vein are Bulgaria and Romania, which are cheaper still, given that plenty of western Europeans have started to buy into Croatia already.
ccwaterback says ¨Any more insights on Mexico?¨
Tewnety year resident here.
Coastal Mexico has some disadvantages- it´s hot, mostly, has some ferocious hurricanes (Both Ivan and are about to hit from both sides right now; up north it´s largely beer swilling college kids hogging the beaches (Vallarta, Cabo, and so on). The places most popular with foreign residents in the Central Highlands
(San Miguel de Allende, Ajijic, Guadalajara) have gotten terribly expensive; no one in hisorher right mind would live in Mexico City (Sad, used to be a wonderful town) and Cancun and vicinity are, well, like Cancun.
But there´s hope. And I live right in the middle of it.
Oaxaca, 300 miles south of Mexico City on a good highway, 5500 ft. elevation, 400.000 inhabitants more or less. There´s a very cosmopolitan set of residents; all my neighbors are Mixteca and Zapotec Indians but within 5 km I have Italian, German, Dutch, Australian, Irish, Scot, Peruvian, Argentine, and American friends, not counting some I´ve forgotten.
The food, IMHO, is the best in the world. Oaxacan restaurants are forever being written up in the US press (try yesterday´s NYTimes, I can´t make the link work right now but the Food section headlines Oaxaca for the I dunno how manyeth time, by the way you don´t have to eat the grasshoppers if you don´t want to)
the markets are spectacular, there are at least two world famous cooking schools that I know of, and Mescal costs $2/litre, if you like Mescal which I don´t.
People come from all over the world to the three main Fiesta seasons: Christmas,
the Day of the Dead and the July Guelaguetza Indian dance festivals. You see Indians walking about in native costumes every day, not for the tourists but because that´s the way theydress.
Even the cops are honest: I´ve been here fourteen years and never paid a peso bribe, and I´ve never had anything but friendly encounters with the police.
Pot is illegal. but I´ve never heard of a foreigner being hassled unless he was up to something else outrageous. Never been robbed, never been mugged, never even had a traffic ticket, and I drive my hotrod 67VW 95mph whenever I get the chance.
We don´t have a Walmart (Sam´s Club opened recently though).
And absolutely everybody I know hates Bush.
This is getting too long. If anybody wants more, just ask.
Regards, M
Oh puhlease!!
You calling me a liar? Do it in the pit if you must, not here. M
It’s not easy to migrate to Australia or New Zealand without being young, having highly demanded job skills, or having a lot of money. However, if you can get into those countries, there’s a lot going for them (including socialised medicine, and facilities at a level similar to those in the US).
Though the Greek Islands are wonderful, I’m not sure you would do well in a medical emergency on one of the smaller Islands. So though Skyros (ex.) is heaven, I’d suggest Rhodes as safer medically speaking. Jordon was heavenly (if you like heat) with reasonable medical infrastructure, too bad Al Qaida and Bush Jr. spoilt the whole middle east as a destination. I have heard good things about Singapore, but I susspect it is expensive to live there (and they are more than a little intollerent of certain groups). Protugal, Spain, and Southern France are fairly cheap compared to the expensive parts of USA (much cheaper than California to live) and have fine weather good medical infastructure, and are all great places to visit.
If I were forced to move from California, and didn’t need to return to UK I would probably chose France because I can just about get allong in the French language.
Don’t be so thin-skinnned.
I’m just saying you’re mistaken.
CB. have you ever visited Oaxaca? I´ve lived here for fourteen years. The recently retired Chief of Police is my compadre (presented my daughter for baptism). He´s a big. very tough guy, and a born again Christian, deacon in his church. His men idolized him, except for the ones who hoped to get fat on bribes, and when he said ¨No more corruption¨ he meant it. He used to go on the radio every Friday: ¨Here´s my home phone number. If any of my agents tries any extorsion, call me.¨ He meant that too. It worked.
Yes Mapache I have visited Oaxaca. What is your compadre’s name?
And that proves that the cops (ie not just the one you know) are honest, how?
CBE: I don´t put people´s names on a public message board without their permission, and my compadre is out of town just now. eMail me and I´ll tell you.
Gorilla: What kind of proof do you want? What I know is that I have never been hit for a bribe, and that no foreigner I know has. The foreign community here is pretty tight-knit, and if anyone was being hassled it would be all over town in about three days. Don´t believe me, call the American consul, Mark Leyes. (I can put his name on the net because he´s a public official). I´ve known him for fourteen years; we get together now and then to exchange gossip and he definitely knows what´s happening with everybody. And I didn´t just know one cop, I knew about fifty.
Why do you people have a problem with the idea that everything you read about (insert country name) might not be accurate? The French never take baths, Germans goosestep everywhere they go, Japanese always travel herded together like sheep, Mexican cops are all corrupt unshaven louts. (In some places that´s not too far from the truth, but not here.
I’ll mention a couple of places that haven’t been brought up in this thread.
South Africa: if crime can come under control, coastal South Africa offers a perfect climate; Western-standard levels of infrastructure, housing (excepting townships and tribal regions, of course), medicine and other services and amenities. The language barrier is small; English is dominant in urban areas, with plenty of Afrikaans ESL speakers. Housing, what I’ve seen of it in South African real estate Web sites, is hella cheap by US standards; outside of Cape Town, $100K to $150K will get you a custom three bedroom, two bathroom house with a pool in Hermanus, Durban or Port Elizabeth.
Cuba: not now, but post-communist Cuba, in 10 or 15 years. Close to the US, lots of coastline, lots of capital from refugees returning home from Florida, a language barrier that probably won’t be that great, and some of the friendliest people on the planet. Risks: a possible brain drain, but it will probably slow or be reversed as the coun try stabilizes. There is the risk of overdevelopment, but consider how much coastline the country has.
No need to tell me his name although I’m sure being a chief of police he is well known in your city. Can you please tell me which police agency he was the head of?
That may be true Mapache but the thing is, Oaxaca gets tons of foreign visitors and they don’t belong to your tight knit community. Has a cop ever tried to extort a few pesos from a non-resident tourist? Would they be likely to report it? What if they don’t speak Spanish? Where do they go and to whom do they report it?
Is a cop only dishonest if he extorts money? What about cops accepting an unsolicited bribe to overlook a legitimate traffic violation? The transito pulls someone over for speeding and has his ticket book in hand, ready to write the guilty person up when the speeder pulls out 200 pesos and asks if it can’t all be taken care of there and then. The cop takes home all of around $200usd a month if he’s lucky, so what does he do? Pass up what amounts to 10% of his monthly wage or accept the offer?
BTW where in the city of Oaxaca do you drive 95mph? It’s been a while since I’ve been there but I hear it has a bad traffic problem now. Plus the streets aren’t really conducive to driving at that speed.
I find at least half of what I read about Mexico to be inaccurate including what you wrote about the cops in Oaxaca being honest!
Getting back to the question of Mexico as a cheap destination. It really depends on the lifestyle you choose to live. $100,000 for 10 years comes roughly to $800 a month. Many Mexicans live on that or less. So yes you can live on that amount in Mexico but it won’t be the lifestyle you may be thinking of.
You could also marry a native!
I can’t speak for New Zealand, but there’s nothing inexpensive about Australia. I suffer daily sticker-shock and we’re thinking about eventually moving back to the U.S. because there’s absolutely no way we could afford a house here without a serious change in lifestyle.
Plusses for Australia: Beautiful weather, easygoing people, lovely beaches, cool cities, decent beer, excellent wine country, great Asian food (and a bunch of other stuff…I should probably start a thread!)
The medicine in socialized, which I don’t necessarily view as a complete plus. Yeah, it’s pretty much free, but some of the things I’ve witnessed (my father-in-law has cancer and numerous other problems) make me think the care you get is not to the same standard in the U.S. That high standard is certainly available to the people who are able to pay for private insurance or pay out-of-pocket, but the care you receive through Medicare is not always great.
Come north and then you can afford a house ;). I’d not consider NZ or Australia as cheap paradises and neither of them are easy to immigrate to.
If I got cancer, I’d like private health cover. My dad had cancer and the private healthcare made a difference in his care. OTOH my son has just spent 6 weeks in a psych unit with 12 beds and an incredible staff ratio (more staff than kids at times) and it cost me nothing out of pocket. The $300 safety net has made a huge difference as well for us with chronic ongoing health issues. I think medicare is available to immigrants from the day they arrive and similarly the socialised medicine in NZ is available.
Thanks for the insights on Oaxaca. Seems like a bit of a row has been started on the subject, but hey, that’s how we get to the straight dope. I will be further investigating the plusses and minuses of Oaxaca.
CB: I don´t know why you´re on my case about my compadre, but if you don´t want to email me let´s drop it.
Of course the cops will take a small bribe if it´s offered. But since Oaxaca lives on its tourist trade, anything that pisses off tourists overmuch is strongly discouraged. And if the tourists want to complain, they go to the State Tourism Office, where their complaints will be attended to. Enthusiasticly.
And equally of course I don´t drive 95 downtown, where, as you note, the traffic is terrible (sometimes). Speed bumps alone would be a disaster. The local hotrodders usually get together at a parking lot near the Ford dealer, then out past the airport there´s a long straight fourlane to race on.
That is true.