'Cheating' in single player games

A game is supposed to be FUN. If one person is playing any kind of game by himself, I figure he’s entitled to do things any way he likes.

It’s only “cheating” if you’re getting somekind of reward you’re not entitled to, or if you’re stealing a victory that rightfully belongs to someone else.

I haven’t played any PC role-playing games in almost 10 years, but when I did, I frequently used a “cheat book” to get me past the puzzles or features that jst didn’t interest me. If I enjoy the strategy-related or mystery solving-related features of a game, but don’t enjoy wending my way through endless mazes and tunnels, why on Earth should I spend hours wending my way through tunnels? Why shouldn’t I just look at the book and find out how to skip ahead to the features I DO enjoy?

On a more low-tech level, SOME people think it’s “cheating” to use a dictionary when solving a crossword puzzle. Me? My take is, a crossword is supposed to be fun. If you’re taking part in a competition against other puzzle solvers, yes, youd’ be cheating if you used reference materials. But in your own home, at your own kitchen table? Do whatever you want! Again, solving a puzzle is supposed to be fun. If it’s NOT fun for you to get stuck in a corner with blanks you can’t figure out how to fill in, why NOT look it up? No sense giving yourself ulcers over something so trivial.

In a competition, you have to follow the rules. If you’re playing alone, YOU make the rules, as far as I’m concerned.

Dude, I don’t tell people I beat a game on the Awesome Evil Brutal Ass Kicking level. Essentially I’m doing the equivalent of mentioning, “Hey, I made a new pie last weekend. It was really good!” Lying about your pie (or your difficulty level, or whatever) is just sad, and I’d feel sorry for that person because he obviously thought I gave a crap what level he plays video games at, and it’s clearly important to him for some pathetic reason.

It is but not for the reason the designer intended. The controls are absolutely terrible. If they fixed their interface code and kept the insane level design it would still make the point and be a better experience.

I think the fundamental thing that the OP is missing is gamers are not a monolithic block. You’ve got explorers and challenge seekers and fiddlers and community builders and on and on. People are looking for different things in their gaming experience and for some of them “cheating” (and I’d be hard pressed to call playing on easy cheating) doesn’t diminish their experience.

Just last night I was listening to someone ask developers at the GDC the simple question, “Why game?” And as I was listening to their responses of, “It’s fun,” or, “Escapism,” over and over I was thinking that these guys were not particularly deep thinkers. The answer to “Why is it fun?” is also the answer to the OP’s question and it’s going to be personal.

Hmmm, it’s almost like I was invisible. The attempt to inject some analysis into this has gone totally by the wayside. :frowning:

You can do with a game whatever the hell you WANT to do with it. Who CARES if you “cheat” your way through the game. It’s like playing golf on the course alone, with nobody playing against you, no bet on the line, not turning your score in for handicap, etc. If you fluff the lie, or replay a shot, what difference does it make?? NONE.

But, you are going to handicap your ability to play the game well if you insist on doing it regularly. This means that, if you ever DO have to play against someone else, you will do relatively poorly. It also means that you’ll never ever be able to enjoy the deep satisfaction of knowing that you completed the game without having to “cheat.”

Eh, I’ll never achieve any of those even without mods/cheats/easy mode forever/etc., so I’m not worried. If you’re someone who that matters for, then sure, this makes sense.

Life is short and not everything is a competition.

Under what circumstances do I HAVE to play against someone else? Is a gun being held to my head? Why should I waste my precious free time playing a game in a way that bores and frustrates me just so I’ll “be prepared” in case someone challenges me down the road?

And … I’m not a completist. I don’t get a deep feeling of satisfaction when I finish a game. Mostly I’m annoyed that I wasted so much time on something that had such an unsatisfactory resolution. For me gaming is about the journey, not the destination. I don’t care very much about winning (or losing for that matter). I just want to have some fun and kill some time.

Believe it or not, I do too, and this is one of the reasons I allow myself to metagame on some occasions. I am not under any illusions that I am as smart as my 28 int score epic mage. This actually stems from my tabletop experiences, where the DM (sometimes me) would allow Wise characters to “rethink” actions that violate every law of common sense available, intelligent characters to know things they shouldn’t know (to a degree, some things weren’t allowed because they fall under Knowledge ability checks), or slip exceptionally Charismatic characters pieces of paper with the NPC’s likes and dislikes (or something) on them. Because none of us are Gandhi, Einstein, or MLK Jr.

If I’m playing a warrior character I generally go through with it and accept it (unless I pumped up my int stat, that’s another story), if I’m a mage I may allow myself a couple reloads on the pretense of “that was my character thinking through what would happen if I said that to him.”

That said, there are game mechanics or goals that I’ll cheat through under the condition of being arbitrary or bullshit. I’m playing NWN2 again right now, so I’ll use that. You need to raise gold to rebuild a keep. Getting gold is not hard, holding on to gold is not hard, and nothing to do with any of that is hard… at all, on top of that, it’s not a challenge either (I’ll explain the difference shortly). The only thing that’s hard about it is not falling over unconscious from boredom while spending 30 minutes cleaning my inventory and traveling back and forth from A to B to pick up items I didn’t have room for on the previous trip. I’ll cheat myself the gold instead, thanks.

Now hard and challenge… this is a concept I think people confuse on occasion (meaning: confuse my arbitrary distinctions no-one else would logically have :D). I see it on gamefaqs often enough. People will point out something hair-pullingly difficult, but entirely unfair and claim it as a challenge and god forbid games have challenge now and all that, they’ll cry at the “whiners.” I’ll use Canary Mary from Banjo Tooie.

She was evil to beat, she had the worst Rubber Band AI you’ve seen, unless you’re a god at mashing buttons you weren’t going to win (there are ways to bug the AI into losing, but they’re equally esoteric skills). Even the developers mentioned they ran out of time to fix her, and that it was completely imbalanced. This is not a challenge, it does not have a reasonable way of completing it, it’s buggy, terrible, and beating it tends to illicit the “thank god, finally” reaction more than the “I won! In your face!” reaction. Fake Difficulty basically, it’s what Yahtzee was saying in Zero Punctuation with adventure games that involve “meticulously rubbing one object against another in hopes that that particular combination will allow you to hop on to the particular train of logic unique to that game’s developer.” I do not hold it against anyone for cheating through these (except the few acceptable cases where the Fake Difficulty is actually needed to make it a challenge at all, such as giving computer players stronger units because they’re not as good tactically).

I also don’t mind guides in some games (RPGs are the most guilty) simply because of the ridiculous amount of lost forever items and sidequests. I try to find “spoiler-free” guides if I can, meaning ones that list roughly when and where you can get a sidequest and when it can’t be started/finished anymore, but not how to solve it or any actual “walkthrough.” They often also list what dungeon an ultimate item is in, but not how to obtain it.

The only other form of “cheating” I think it completely passable is in simulation games like The Sims because oftentimes upkeep is more fun than character building (besides, not everyone is brought into the big wide world as a dirt poor person who barely has the skills for an entry level job, it may be nice to simulate someone who inherited 10 million dollars… or something).

Also… goddamn event Pokemon, I will say no more on that.

I just want to add that “cheating” in multiplayer is not bad if everyone your playing against knows your cheating and doesn’t care. Some people don’t mind the handicap of letting a lesser player cheat. And sometimes, everyone has agreed to cheat in a certain way and just wants to have fun.

As for roleplaying in video games, I do it, too, sometimes. But sometimes, you encounter something so difficult that it pulls you out of the game. Or are required to do something your character would never do.

I had a roommate who played a strict non-magic user in Morrowind. He cheated around anything that required magic. And he was hardcore; potions had sparkles, so they counted as magical. He didn’t mind handling magic items as long as they didn’t effect him, as his character just assumed that they weren’t really magical. Anyways, you have to have a magical item to beat the game properly. Rather than take the time and mod a non-magical way to get the ending, he just knocked the self-healing guy into the lava, getting him glitched in such a way that, even if his character came back, the guy stayed there. So his character thought it was just as dying, as the bad guy was essentially stuck in hell. Then his character went back and massacred every magic user.

Cheating to get past those is fine. Although I don’t like calling it cheating, because actual cheating requires deception on someone’s part. And, in a single player game, there’s no other entity to have been deceived. I know I didn’t play it the way it was supposed to be played and can always go back and play it the “right” way later.

Saying all that, I do understand why it would be frustrating when someone brags about beating a game, and implies that they played the game as written. Since they are being deceptive with you, what they did retroactively becomes cheating. Just remember that they may not be intending to deceive you.

Ah, now I remembered when I do cheat.

Games like Diablo II and Titan Quest, where you have limited skill points. I forgot how many times I have to use a character editor because the skill I have invested in just don’t plain work out (and re-starting and play another 3 days to get the point I am at?)

Another ‘cheat’ I use is basically just external programs to store items from said games. It’s just like a pack mule on steroids.

It’s probably been mentioned, but I figure I’ll throw in my two cents.

-Occasionally I will look up how to solve a particular section. I do this, not so much when I am having difficulty doing the task at hand, but when I have no frickin’ clue what to do next. I, personally, take no joy in figuring out where I’m supposed to go next if it involved 2 hours of doing the same thing slightly differently over and over and over and OVER again.

-Sometimes I look up stuff that I already completed, because I feel pride from reading it and thinking ‘yeah, I did that’. Sometimes I find stuff that I didn’t know about, and then go back and do. Is that cheating?

-With a certain franchise–Fire Emblem–I feel perfectly fine resetting the level if I screw up. However, I see this differently than other games. Mainly because, when you play that game, there are two places to aim:
Finishing the game (i.e. completing all the levels)
or
Getting everything (i.e. recruiting all the characters, getting all the treasure, etc.)

Also, this franchise doesn’t allow for second chances. Ever. Meaning that if one of my characters die, I either have to restart the level or go on without him, for the rest of the game. Since I play to get everything, I would have to have an ungodly amount of skill in order to not reset.

Now that I have actually read the thread, allow me rephrase my comments on Fire Emblem.

I see the games–at least the playable parts–as a challenge. How can I outsmart the designer, such that I can get everything without missing a beat? The storyline, obviously, is different. But to me, those two parts are completely separate–the storyline is a well-told story about a war in a fantasy-type world with undertones about the real world, and the gameplay portion is a highly complex tactical challenge that just happens to use the same characters as in the storyline. So when certain characters have lines that ‘should have’ died based on my first run-through of the level, to me, the story isn’t wrong because I cheated–the characters are alive because that’s what the story wants. It’s just a different perspective, is all.

No one said it was all a competition. But I’ve found that some of the most fun you can have playing computer games is to do so online against human opponents. If you haven’t tried it, I highly recommend it. :slight_smile:

And if you don’t care about finishing a thing, well, then, that’s fine. I’m just saying that there is a satisfaction that most people get from accomplishing something unaided by “illegal” help. YMMV, obviously.

I think god-mode style cheats are horribly un-fun and worthy of eye rolling. However, there are a few things I will do to make things easier for myself.

-Removing item carry limits. I am far too patient a person. After clearing a dungeon in an RPG or similar, I will meticulously return over and over again to make sure I get every last piece of loot. This isn’t exactly a challenge, it’s just boring. So, I’ll just edit my character to be able to carry everything and get on with my day. I will usually compensate by mentally restricting myself to a reasonable equipment loadout.
What RPGs with carry limits SHOULD have, in my mind, is a “send to storage” option whenever you find loot. Hitting that option would send the item to your domicile or home base or whatever. That way, you wouldn’t have to backtrack for hours to pick up everything, but you would still have to make hard choices about which equipment you want to take along.

-Fixing character build mistakes. Sometimes I’ll play an RPG and not notice that I made a mistake making my character. Usually something like improperly allocating skill points so that I can’t qualify for something. In that case, I will think nothing of editing my character to fix that. I will always make sure that my changes result in a character that I could have had legally, if not for my mistake.

-Checking for ‘Lost Forever’ things. I am a completionist. I hate Hate HATE it when games have permanently missable items or sidequests if you fail to do something at some arbitrary point. I don’t care if the reward is something I will never use, I need to get it. It crushes my morale when I find out I missed something. I have no compunction about checking a guide ahead of time to see if this will come up. This also means I will save scum if a speech check or whatever is needed.

I’ll also cheat if it increases my fun options. When I was playing Neverwiner Nights 2, I removed the party size limit, but compensated by only allowing myself to have the normal number of characters fighting at any one time and only allowing myself to rest once per area. If my main group was defeated, then I’d use my backup team to try and pull through. It was a much more interesting resource management setup than then normal fight, rest, fight, rest, fight, rest flow.

I never cheat in action games, though. Seems antithetical to the whole point.

Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark actually forces a lost forever on you, this pissed me off so much I got really creative.

You see, you’re sent to get allies, or anything that can help you, from (I think) 4 locations, two deep in the Underdark, two down a river that you talk to a boat NPC to get to in order to fend off an attack from some Drow that rather don’t like you. After finishing (again, I think) two of those missions and returning to town the Sergeant/General/Organizer dude runs up to you to say “job well done” forcing you to miss two of the locations.

The completionist I am, I said screw that. There’s a plot item you get that, effectively, allows you to teleport anywhere you please. So I just went to the last two places I wanted to do, set up my teleport destinations, and then went and completed the one I just did and went to the other two without passing through town and thus getting stopped.

Metagaming? Totally. Worth it? That was my favorite “screw you!” To the designers ever, so yes. Sometimes reloading a save to work your away around something like that is totally justified in those cases, imo of course.

Just because you like games, doesn’t mean you’re always good at them. To me, it’s much more fun to play a game with cheats than to play one that I can never win. That’s not to say I always cheat and never play normally, just I like to have the option should I so choose.

Why should such things drive you batty? My cheating or not doesn’t affect you in any way in single player games. You play your way, I’ll play mine, and we can each get what we want out of the games.

–TBG, who once went to Canada just to buy a GameGenie for the NES when Nintendo got the courts to temporarily keep them out of US stores

Heh. I’ve played (and designed) *lots *of online games. If you’re looking for a competitive experience, I agree that a human opponent always beats an AI. It’s just that some of us aren’t looking for a competitive experience as a freetime activity.

See, I don’t view finishing a game as an “accomplishment”, any more that I view finishing a book or watching a movie as an accomplishment. I do it for the journey, not the destination. And based on the comments in this thread, lots of people feel like I do.

This is me. I played through Duke Nukem 3D the first time without cheating. After that, when I just wanted to kill some time I’d type in the code for “God mode” and just run through blowing shit up. Because it was fun :slight_smile:

ETA: Also, WarCraft II and III (moreso with III than II). It didn’t take me long to figure out that I’m just not very good at RTS games. But I found the stories fascinating and wanted to see how they ended, so I used cheat codes where necessary to progress through to the end of the games.

This.

Last game I played all the way through was Tron 2.0.

Well designed game, beautiful graphics, compelling storyline. And never really play-tested by the authors.

I started using cheats when, halfway through the game, there was a part where you had to run up a flight of stairs, grab a rifle, run up another flight of stairs to a window and start target-shooting ‘storm troopers’ that were about 8 pixels big. They came running in like ants in a line, exactly at the maximum speed I could fire. There were hundreds of them. Then, halfway through the fight, you had to stop firing, run back down the steps, recharge your weapon, run back up and shoot another hundred or so of them who were now that much closer to the door. If even one of them got in–if you missed one time, you lost. Too bad.

It was about a 15-20 minute sequence of the most tedious point-and-click shooting I’ve ever dealt with and with literally no margin for error, it was near-impossible (if you took one extra step between the window and the recharge unit, if you took one extra second at the recharge unit, you lost).

You couldn’t progress in the game if you didn’t get past that scene. Everything bottlenecked there.

I cheated by getting a hack that let you fire grenades, taking out dozens of them at once. Made the scene about 4 minutes long and a lot more fun.

There’s no way that anyone tested that scene.

I have no qualms about using mods to fix game-designer errors.

I can see most of the “Did they let you out of the nursing home, Grandpa?” and “Why the fuck do you care if someone cheats in/mods a purely single-player game?” comments have already been made, so I’ll move past that and mention that computer games have evolved considerably in the last few years to the point (especially post- Half-Life) where they’re really interactive movies and as such are very much now (IMHO) more about the journey than the destination.

As for Mods: Most of the mods I’ve used have been to fix gameplay imbalances or to restore features from previous games in the series removed in sequels. For example, in the 1994 game Colonisation, you could “abandon” a colony which turned out to be indefensible or in a really crappy location, provided it didn’t have a stockade. This “feature” was removed from the re-make Civilisation IV: Colonisation, but has been restored by Mods. Actually, there’s a comprehensive, balanced Mod for C4C which makes it an incredible game and fixes pretty much every criticism anyone has ever had with it, but that’s by the by. :wink:

In Most RPGs, your character will find a lot of Stuff lying about the game world. In Ye Olde Days, most of the Stuff your character found would invariably turn out to be useful (or even vital) much, much later in the game- to the point where, in early RPGs, it was entirely possible to find yourself at an impasse because (for example) you didn’t collect the pocketwatch from the jeweller’s back in the Town Square section several play-hours previously. So, rather than restore from a previous save and have to re-play half the game, you could just open up an Item Editor programme and magic the Pocketwatch into your character’s inventory, removing the “roadblock” and allowing the game to continue.

Contrary to what the OP seems to think, most people using cheats in single-player games are not looking for an “I Win” button. So, in the above scenario, most players would not simply open the Item Editor and magic themselves every. single. item in the game. It’s there as a form of “Lifeline” to help the player progress through the story.

In modern RPGs, however, the “forgetting to collect a vital quest component at the start of the game” trope is (more or less) redundant and instead game worlds are now full of Stuff that is completely and utterly useless, but looks useful- and therefore your character might very well find themselves lugging about Oddly Shaped Rocks and Steering Wheels From a '67 Chrysalis Highwayman because they look important- but they aren’t.

So, there are mods in place to allow your character to carry more- or, even better, actually use all this Stuff to make useful things. It’s about enhancing the in-game experience, not detracting from it.

The game designers want you to enjoy the game. And in something like Fallout 3 or Oblivion, it’s not enjoyable to be getting your ass handed to you at Level 3 when you’re constantly getting attacked by Raiders with SMGs or Whirling Banshees With Fire-Magic and the best you’ve managed to get is a 10mm pistol with one spare clip of ammo, or a Rusty Dagger Of Not Doing Very Much Damage.

My policy is to play the game “properly” through the first time, with reference to a Walkthrough in areas where I’m really, really stuck (say, have spent 15 minutes of Real Time wandering around and around in circles looking for the Cavern Entrance, when it turns out that there’s a switch concealed in the rockpile next to to the dead badger that needs to be activated to reveal it), or perhaps a quick check of a Components List to see if that Fusion Battery I’ve picked up (having not seen many) is actually used for anything or if it’s just in-game “colour”.

Having completed the game properly, on re-plays I’m going to explore and want to sightsee (and do quests I missed the first time around), and to that end I have no problem with anyone wanting to give themselves better starting equipment or more ammo or anything like that.

I view meta-gaming (walkthroughs, save/reload etc) as being very similar to watching a movie, going “Hmm, I don’t think I completely understood what the Director was getting at there” and going onto IMDB or Wikipedia and discovering that the scene with the Aardvark and the Millkman represented the Milkman’s fear of change and desire to be strong about… whatever it was that was happening.

It’s not “cheating”, it’s adding to the experience and enhancing my enjoyment of the subject. As long as you’ve made an attempt to do it “properly” first time through, I see no problem at all with mods, cheats, and meta-gaming in single-player games.

Multiplayer is an entirely different kettle of fish, of course, and rightly so.

Incidentally, playing a game on “Easy” is not cheating, and anyone who says otherwise, IMHO, is grabbing at straws in a vain attempt to make themselves feel vaguely superior to everyone else.

What exactly is the fun in a game besides the challenge? Is it just pressing buttons and seeing things change on the screen?