'Cheating' in single player games

But why is reloading a cheat? It’s a game mechanic, intentionally programmed a certain way. If the designers didn’t want you to do it, they’d disallow it. It might not be the most challenging route through a game, true, but it is, IMO, not cheating to take advantage of a game mechanic.

Likewise with purchasable/unlockable extras. I spent the effort to obtain them, why is it cheating to use them. Again, it certainly removes any skill otherwise required to play when you can turn on an infinite rocket launcher (RE4) or invincibility (Lego Anything), thereby reducing or eliminating game challenge, but it’s still using an intentionally designed game reward mechanic. To get them in RE4, as an example, I have to finish the game the “normal” way and play a new game +. In the Lego games, I have to complete most of the levels the “normal” way before I can unlock the extras (and accrue Lego studs to purchase them after otherwise unlocking them). I don’t see how that is cheating.

About the only choice in the list I posted I see as cheating is the hidden cheat code route (which you basically have to figure out using non-game means), and I personally only use those sparingly or after finishing the game normally.

And the Final Fantasy VI loop, I’ll admit is a hazy/gray area. On the one hand, it just uses a certain character’s native skill along with the one area in the game you can go around in circles without actually watching the game to keep your characters from dying while accruing small bits of experience. Given enough time, you can then level them far higher and access spells sooner than otherwise. But you can do that anyways fighting monsters in the first area (it just takes a ton of time that way) if you wanted. The exploit just takes advantage of a poorly planned game area. It is an exploit, however, so I could see someone arguing that it’s cheating.

What, reloading a level when you make a mistake is cheating? I’m sorry, I sucks at action games. And platforming. If I have a chance to save before doing something that would waste hours, then I would do so. Some FF bosses only drop certain loot on a random percentage. Does it mean i have to replay the whole game from the start till that boss just because I miss that loot?

I know that some people desire a challenge - I have a friend who plays all games on Hard immediately, and could do DMC3 in Dante Must Die mode, but he don’t call people who aren’t as good as him and need the help of technology, FAQs, or walk-throughs cheaters.

Edit: The only game which reloading/saving is cheating is Nethack or those which specifically disallow it. If a game let me does it, why not? I like to play New Game+ in Chrono Cross because this is the only way you can get all the party members. I like to re-experience the story in Chrono Trigger and just blaze through it with my New Game+. That’s cheating? Cheating is when you are presenting bogus achievements. Which, I don’t think anyone here, is advocating.

I did just fine without a Game Genie for a long time. In fact, I didn’t even get the one for the Super NES for the first few months I owned the system. It was an idyllic period, where I could blast the hell out of a bunch of ducks or hop across platforms and love it.

Then I started dealing with super-quick, super-tough foes. Impossible jumps. Tedious level grinding. Bullet hails. Enemies swarming at absolutely blinding speeds. Obstacles that popped up for no reason and served no purpose but to hinder me. And checkpoints. DAMN the checkpoints. I call this my Screaming Period. Because I could not play video games without screaming. (Don’t get me started on computer games…)

I was initially dissatisfied with the PSX until I got a Gameshark (and a tremendous upgrade). The PS2 was the big turning point…the first thing I sought was a Gameshark. And when it turned out to be defective and not good at all? I got a Codebreaker. And when that turned out to be inferior? I got the Action Replay Max. And then another Codebreaker. And now I’m going to buy the latest Action Replay Max, which is going to be the last, simply because the Codebreaker site isn’t updating anymore. Plus I could never get the Gran Turismo 4 codes to work.

Why the drastic change? How did a cheat device change from a novelty to a necessity? Well, it’s a bunch of things:
The Golden Rule: Being able to make the rules is golden.
Prime example: NFL Blitz
The Gameshark extended NFL Blitz’s replay value roughly ten times. Start on fourth down! Set however many points you want for a touchdown, field goal, or conversion! One side always has the ball! Not to mentioning activating any combination of in-game codes at will. The possibilities are nearly endless. Withought a Gameshark, this is just another dumb, flawed Midway rubberband-a-thon potboiler.

Keep the good parts and throw away the rest.
Prime examples: Elite Beat Agents, Guitar Hero 3.
Ah, EBA. Wonderfully creative, an absolute romp to play, colorful, witty, in a class by itself. So why does the last level have to be like FOUR TIMES AS HARD as everything that came before? Not that it’ll matter come The Divas, where about two-thirds of the songs are impossible. And I’ll never understand why they make you do those clumsy guitar battles in the otherwise stellar GH3. Play it straight when the good times are rolling, but be prepared when the BS comes into play, that’s what I do.

You BS me, I ICBM you.
Prime example: Defender of the Crown, Puzzle Bobble, every WWE game for PS2
Seriously: We all know what BS is. We all understand when the game doesn’t play fair, when the otherside is just too fast, too strong, too smart, or too tough. As far as I’m concerned, they take any kind of unfair edge, the gloves are off and I will be as dirty and destructive and merciless and mean as I feel like. And I can go pretty far.

As soon as you pry it out of my cold hands.
Prime examples: Robocop, The Punisher (Capcom), Time Crisis 3, Crime Fighters, Heavy Barrel, etc.
Some amazingly powerful weapon or ability that has like 3 shots at a time or can only be called up once in a blue moon. Hell, I’m no good with temptation. I get something that’s 10x as effective as what I normally got, I’m keepin’ it!

Because otherwise I’d be screaming.
Prime example: Contra 4
Sometimes there’s just no middle ground, y’know? Either play it dirty as hell or be subject to unspeakable aggravation and the same 1 1/2 levels for all eternity. And if it’s just barely tolerable with cheating, well, that’s when you know it’s time to throw in the towel. Thank goodness Gamestop is so generous with buy-backs…

But feel guilty, or any loss of achievement or whatever, no, no way, never. I’m with the sensible voices here: there’s no such thing as meaningful accomplishment with a friggin’ video game.

I am a student of the “You BS me, I ICBM you” school of thought. I do not tolerate computer cheating in my video games, and will ruthlessly punish a cheating computer using the most destructive means possible. When the cheating computer wins 13 out of 15 times with less than 20% defense chance, and counters my turn by killing a great general with a 5% attack chance, the blinders go on and I obsess over ripping the Carthaginians to shreds with battle reload cheese until they beg for mercy. CAN NOT STAND IT WHEN COMPUTERS CHEAT! Rawr!

Wow, now reloading a game after you make a mistake or whatever is cheating? Why don’t I just go back to real life, WHERE I CAN’T RELOAD ANYTHING. That’s why it’s a game, yo.

Currently my favorite game is Oblivion, and I play it on the Xbox, where I have no mods or cheats whatsoever. But do I have it set on easy? You betcha! I’m not in there to get into lots of difficult fights! I’m in there to do the cool assassin’s guild quests, to run around in a beautiful wilderness with tons of things to kill or ignore, with gods and mortals living practically side by side. A place where I can leap 40 feet into a waterfall and not break my neck. A place where I can pick a guard’s pocket and maybe screw up and go to jail and come out, and still be an accepted member of society!

I don’t call any of that cheating. When I save before I do the really difficult quests, I fully expect to reload when/if I die.

Oh, and I totally, totally disagree that playing online has any semblance of fun whatsoeever. What do you get online but teens, with their stupid leetspeak and all their arguing, and god forbid you are good at the game, they call you a cheater. My SO is very good at shooting games and plays online a lot and enjoys it. I hate the very idea. Last time I played online for any length of time was Diablo II. I hate playing online with other people.

I am trying to think of what games I actually “cheated” on recently, other than Modern Warfare. I don’t count having a hint book as cheating, to be quite honest, and definitely not setting it to low difficulty. Oh yeah - we got the cheats for Baldur’s Gate I & II on the PS2 so we could play together and kick some butt. And I would have jumped all over a real cheat for Prince of Persia: Warrior Within. :frowning:

I don’t think they mean “restart the whole game if you wipe.” They mean “if you get to the last with 16 health and a wrench and it’s technically possible to win don’t reload to get there with 78 health and 8 rockets left on your rocket launcher.”

There are definitely unwinnable situations and if you die reloading is fine, but they’re saying that you don’t have to win EVERY battle in Empire Total War, if you’re defenseless now, do your best to rebuild even if you lose some of your empire in the process and then try different tactics next time instead of saying “that direction didn’t work, reload, ambush, reload, maybe cannons would work better? reload.”

No, I don’t do that - but my SO does. When he plays Oblivion, he goes about it in a very methodical fashion. He works on gaining each stat and working it up to 100. I mean, he will literally stand there and jump, jump, jump for a long time to get his acrobatics up. I can’t remember the last time he has beat any kind of RPG, open-ended or not, he just trains, trains, trains. If he gains a point in the wrong stat when he is not ready (I don’t really understand his system) he reloads.

Needless to say this drives me crazy. My half-ass method of gaining stats I’m sure drives him a little bonkers.

What I am trying to say is we all play our games differently. Why does anyone care how I play mine?

Oh, and Frodo I meant to say - sorry about the knitting. :slight_smile: In truth I am not a very good knitter, but since all I am doing is making what are essentially coasters, I never cared much. As I said, it’s soothing.

IDDQD…muhahaaa :smiley:

This is my thinking when younger and still in school. Now? If I take more than half an hour in a pixel hunt or wandering over a map littered with random encounters every 5 steps I take, I look for a FAQ. Same for coming across boss fights which requires some form of inane puzzle to take down. It doesn’t get fun when it becomes frustrating. If a guide helps me to get through, then so be it.

Heck, I play DMC3 on Easy because it’s fine for me. If playing it on the hardest mode means I miss out “ok you killed one mob by accident and the rest can all now one-shot you” frustration, it’s fine by me.

Edit: Though FAQs which gives away spoilers for the plot irate me to no end

I was conjuring up imps and killing them to boost my weapon and unarmed skill so that I could improve my strength. Then a strange thought came to me. I would be spending hours doing this to improve a virtual stat. Why don’t I haul my ass off my chair and go for a real run? So I shut down my Xbox360 and went for a jog, and never touched the game again.

Oblivion has a, IMHO, stupid leveling system.

Quoted for Truth.

Honestly, how big of a loser does one have to be to actually brag about finishing video games? I can’t imagine sitting with friends and someone saying, “Wow man, I totally finished Crysis last night in hard mode in like two hours. It was so frakin’ awesome.” We’d laugh at that person. Do people really brag about their video game exploits? I’m talking about adults here.

Only when the discussion has already been elevated to that level of gaming nerdiness.

BTW, I totally beat the first NES TMNT.

:stuck_out_tongue:

No, they FRAPS or link their xbox360 to a video capture card, capture their exploits and post it on on YouTube where everyone debate endlessly whether the player is cheating and try to find reasons why each other is a moron.

Like all things, I think it’s poor taste to boast about your gaming achievements. When my bunch talk about games it’s usually about the game and its strategies, though my pals are not the competitive sort.

I know plenty of adults who would brag about how far they hit a golf ball. What’s the difference?

LOL. I’ve been in plenty of design sessions where we’ve talked about what information will probably go in the strategy guide. Designers know that some players like to figure things out for themselves, and that others don’t, and so we design KNOWING that some people will be using a guide to play through the game.

Here’s something to think about: When you finish a game you haven’t “beaten” the designer. Because if the designer wanted to, it would have been trivial for him to make the game impossible. To you it may have felt like a fair fight, but in fact it was rigged from the start in your favor. It’s like a little kid wrestling with his good-natured big brother. When the six-year-old pins the seventeen-year-old, it’s because the big guy knows that it will be more fun if the little guy has a chance, even if it means that he’s pulling his punches.

The designer WANTS you to win. He wants you to see all the cool things he put in the game and have so much fun doing it that you buy the sequel two years later. The game has been tuned so that it provides a decent challenge to the average gamer, but we know that there will be lots of people who find it too hard or too easy, and if there’s a way for them to have fun with the game too, that’s great!

Lots of modern games actually have dynamic difficulty adjustment. The designers have built the cheating in, so players don’t even have to work to cheat! If the game notices that you’re dying a lot, it will start nerfing the enemies so you have an easier time progressing. Think about that the next time you brag about completing a game. You might have been cheating and not even known it! :smiley:

How are you defining “adult”? I work with a number of younger adult males, that is, 18 to 20-somethings, and from what I can tell bragging about their mad video game skillz is one of the most frequent topics.

I don’t brag about my mad video game skillz (what skillz? I set it on easy, remember), but sure, if I’m in a like-minded group I’ll sure as hell mention I beat X game, but more for conversation pieces.
All of this conversation about games not being intended for you to go online reminds me of FF IX, which was not only intended to go online, but when you bought the hintbook, there were tons of hints there that were left out, thus:

“Want to know how to _____? Go to playonline.com!”

I still remember the rage. I think when I first got that game I was still on dial-up, too. Fucking fuckers.

Yeah. Why not? If it comes up in conversation, why wouldn’t you talk about what books you read recently, or what golf courses you played?