Most kind. 
I enjoy the SDMB, but nowadays have limited time for it, so I’ll probably stick to just chess (and maybe LOTRO) here.
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
It looks like that move is the “safest” in this situation, which also still gives me a chance to recover that pawn soon.
edit: game here
B]1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+**
You’re not getting that pawn back!
But you should get some active piece play instead - that’s why this is a ‘book’ line.
I misspoke when I said “recover.” A more appropriate word would have been “avenge!”
I sense a trap, but I can’t see it! Here are my thoughts (and please tell me where I’m going wrong!)
Moving 6. … Nd7 would solve the immediate check and threaten your knight, but it seems like I’d be vulnerable to the shenanigans beginning with 7. Nxf7 that you demonstrated earlier. If not, it would be trivially easy for you to protect the knight from my queen. On top of it all, it seems like I would be taking a step backward, retreating a knight and blocking my bishop.
On the other hand, the next best move I see is 6. … Bd7, which solves the check, threatens the bishop, and develops a piece.
Also, 6. … c6 opens another diagonal for my queen and threatens an unfair exchange to my benefit. I can imagine your bishop could end up retreating for a few turns while my pawns advance!
I hope I’m not making a big blunder already!
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
eta: keep forgetting to post the game link!
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6
No traps this move (though if you foolishly fail to recapture on c6 I win with cxb7+ :eek: )
- … Nd7? is too slow (it blocks in your bishop on c8, for example) and I can easily defend or move my Knight on g5.
- … Bd7 is a main line. You get rapid development (icluding castling) and thus compensation for the sacrificed pawn.
- … c6 is the most popular (although remember this whole opening is a sideline as most White players play the Ruy Lopez i.e. 3. Bb5)
It may help if I add that you should try not to move the same piece in the opening (so Bd7 is better than Nd7) - although I’ve done just that! 
Of course such general advice is good for the inexperienced player - the better players know when there is an sound exception to the ‘rule’.
Remember you are welcome to ask my advice before you move…
Following your advice of avoiding moving a piece more than once in the opening, it seems like taking c6 with my pawn is preferable to taking it with my knight.
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6 bxc6
game here
Spoiler until after next turn! I want to try to predict glee’s next move. It helps my brain hamsters a little.
I just want to post prior to glee’s move, that according to my reckoning white’s best move is Qf3
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6 bxc6
8. Be2
How did you do?!
(This is the only move I’ve ever played in that position, but 8. Bd3 has happened in a few GM games.)
Ah, now my advice is sound in general but you should still analyse each move. Chess is a game of precise calculation, where general principles help you decide what move to study first.
- … bxc6 is the ‘book’ move, mainly because it gains time by threatening the bishop.
I was definitely wrong, but now that I’m looking at the game from a fresh perspective I can see why it wouldn’t have been a good move. I’m a little embarrassed I thought of it, actually.
For my next move, I’m considering 8. … h6. It seems like it ought to force your knight to either retreat or finally make the f7 capture. If you decided to capture at f7, I think the line would go like this- 9. xf7 Kxf7 and then 10. Bh5+ Kxh5, 11. Qxh5+ Ke6, 12. Qg6+ Qf6. I think I would benefit from that line more than you, so I expect you’d instead respond 9. Nf3 or 9. Nh3
Am I missing anything important with that reasoning?
First, sorry about the delay (end of term, you see…)
Secondly, don’t apologise for thinking of 8. Qf3. It’s been played by strong players!
The idea is 8. … cxb5 9. Qxa8. This is an example of a tactic known as a Pin, where one piece can’t move/capture without losing a more valuable piece behind it.
For example 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3 Qc6?? 4. Bb5 wins the Queen. Here the pin is the strongest possible, since the King is involved - and you’re **not allowed **to put your King into check.
- … h6 is the normal move (well done again
), and I have to retreat the Knight. I put it on f3 (Bobby Fischer had a game or two with h3 - but he didn’t play this opening much.) - … h6 9. Bh5+ just loses a piece. The simplest is 9. … g6, but anyway I have no threats.
Also in your line 9. Nxf7 Kxf7 10. Bh5+ Nxh5 11. Qxh5+ , 11. … Kg8 is much safer than 11. … Ke6. Try to keep your King out of the centre when there are lots of pieces (especially the Queen) left on the board.
After having my train of thought confirmed, I’ll commit to h6.
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6 bxc6
8. Be2 h6
I’m feeling a little less timid now than at the beginning!
Game image here!
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6 bxc6
8. Be2 h6
9. Nf3
Excellent - that was one aim of the thread.
I think my priority for next move is to prevent your knight from capturing another free pawn from me. I see a couple of moves to consider, namely 9. …e4 or 9. … Bd6. I remember that forward pawns are strong, and I can see why keeping your knight on the run another turn or two would be a great benefit. Moving Bd6 would put a bit of pressure on your h2 pawn, which would be another thing you’d have to consider when deciding whether to castle.
In the end, I decided I’ll save the e4 move for later, since leaving that pawn where it is helps to disrupt your f3 knight’s options. If you try to dislodge my pawn by moving 10. d4, I’ll respond with 10. d4 e4, which seems like it would lead to 11. Nh4 g5. You’d be in a lot of trouble then! The way to avoid that line would be 11. Nd2, which means I would have gotten another “free” turn while your knight retreats.
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6 bxc6
8. Be2 h6
9. Nf3 Bd6
game update
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 Nf6
4. Ng5 d5
5. exd5 Na5
6. Bb5+ c6
7. dxc6 bxc6
8. Be2 h6
9. Nf3 Bd6
10. d4
Your analysis is pretty good and you’re unlucky that you’re probably losing now. :eek:
I think the only move was 9. … e4, which makes me play 10. Ne5 (still all ‘book’.)
When you’ve sacrificed, it’s important to keep up the pressure and make forcing moves.
In passing, the pressure on h2 from the Bd6 is not great.
After 10. … e4 I play 11. Ne5. I’m not bothered if you take on e5 and maybe later even win that pawn.
I’ll have the two bishops in an open position (a clear long-lasting advantage if you know how to use them), plus your pawns are slightly weak. These tiny advantages are enough for international players to win with.
(Yes, chess is a really deep game with many levels!)
The interesting thing is that one book line is:
- … e4
- Ne5 Bd6
- d4 and now Black can play exd4 en passant.
However in the game if you continue 10. … e4 11. Ne5 then there is no en passant capture.
I think this is an important difference…
(En passant is explained here for those who don’t know it:
Do you think 10. … e4 is still my best move, even without the en passant possibility? I want to avoid 11. e4xd5 Bxd5
12. Qxd8
The three ways I can see to avoid that are 10. … e5xd4, 10. … e5e6, or 10. … Qe7.
I think I can rule out e5xd4, as that would lead to 12. Qxd4, which would give up all the development advantages I worked for. 10. …e5e6 leads to 11. Ne5, which gives your knight a forward position again, with no good/fast way to get rid of him!
Is there any alternative I’m missing?
(Sorry about the delay - Xmas holidays plus a stomach upset :rolleyes:)
I would rank your choices in order of preference as:
-
… e5-e4 (best) as this is a forcing move and saves you time. (Given you’re a pawn down, you must try to keep active.)
-
… e5xd4 (reasonable) as this stops you losing a pawn, but develops my Queen as I recapture.
-
… Qe7 (weakest) as it does defend the pawn (there are many worse moves!), but the position is opening up and so bishops are definitely better than knights. I would continue 11. dxe5 Bxe5 12. Nxe5 Qxe5 13. OO and expect my extra pawn and two bishops to guarantee a smooth win.
Ok, sorry for the delay! I’ve settled on e5-54
- e4 e5
- Nf3 Nc6
- Bc4 Nf6
- Ng5 d5
- exd5 Na5
- Bb5+ c6
- dxc6 bxc6
- Be2 h6
- Nf3 Bd6
- d4 e5-d4
game here
late edit: i meant e5-d4, not e5-54.
To clarify, I mistyped the original move, and then mistyped the correction. The move I intended to make was e5-e4. The game link is correct, but the move list should read:
- e4 e5
- Nf3 Nc6
- Bc4 Nf6
- Ng5 d5
- exd5 Na5
- Bb5+ c6
- dxc6 bxc6
- Be2 h6
- Nf3 Bd6
- d4 e5-e4
Sorry for all the confusion!