I don’t want any advice on which piece to move because that would obviously be cheating, but can black win from the position seen here? I ask because, if there is no chance of winning I may as well resign and let my opponent get on with his tournament. But, if I can still win this game, I would also go through in this round, whereas if we have a stalemate, my opponent would go through alone. Just tell me, am I flogging a dead horse at this stage?
I think I see a way to win, but I’m a total amateur, so wait for Glee or someone of his ilk to weigh in.
I don’t know the details of your tournament, so the ethics of not advising another player (as forbidden by the laws of chess) would normally stop me saying anything.
However, there are only three possible results from this position:
- draw
- draw
- draw :eek:
The King and pawn ending is a draw with an a (or h) pawn where the defending King is in the way.
The Rook and pawn ending is a draw, mainly because most Rook and pawn endings are drawn 
, but also here because the black pawn cannot defend the Black King against checks.
Offer a draw.
P.S. The horse is not only dead, it’s been taken away to the knacker’s yard and reprocessed into something environmentally sound.
I beg to differ, black can win
Well, of course black can win, if white runs his king away to the far corner and then “sacrifices” his rook. But glee’s point is that with best (or even average) play on both sides, it cannot be anything other than a draw.
No need to resign, just offer a draw - no reason for your opponent not to accept. If he refused I may choose not to resign just on principle (I appreciate it makes no difference from your point of view).
I agree with Glee. It’s a textbook draw.
Glee, can you spoiler box the three ways that this ends in the draw? I don’t always do so well in seeing both positions played out.
One more. Draw.
I’ll be interested in seeing Glee’s analysis as well. Meanwhile, here’s mine:
[spoiler]
61. … Rxc3
62. Kxc3 a3
63. Kb3 draw
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… Rb4+
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Ka3 draw
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… Kb4
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Rxc4 Kxc4
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Ka3 draw
Any rook move by black along the c-file is met by an exchange of rooks followed by Ka3.
Any rook move along the 4th rank is met by Ka3.
A pawn check results in a King and Rook ending.
The theoretical problem lies in the combined facts that the black king is behind the pawn and the pawn is on the side of the board. Without error from White, the problems can’t be overcome.[/spoiler]
Agreed, I was being a bit silly:smack:
Obviously it is a text book draw
Don’t move until you see it.
I’m confused. At the top of the screen it says “white to move.” But the OP is asking whether black can win from the position. Is the position white’s move or black’s move?
Maybe the board linked to is reflecting the game as it is in progress? That wouid make sense of the problem I pointed to in my previous post, as well as the fact that some of the moves I’m seeing discussed in the thread don’t make sense given what I’m seeing on the board.
-FrL-
From the position I’m seeing,* it appears white can force a draw by just moving his rook back and forth on the third rank.
-FrL-
*Black pawn, king, rook, on fourth rank, first three files. White rook on C3. White king on B2.
Frylock, the last move made is highlighted in blue, and I have indeed moved since I originally asked the question. I had a feeling when I made the OP that my opponent could only lose if he did something foolish. As he has done nothing thus far to indicate such a thing is likely now, should the honorable thing for me to do, be to offer a draw, or should I just play the game to its outcome?
The position is definitely drawn, unless white makes an incredibly boneheaded move.
I don’t know from honor here, but I’d play a few moves to make sure it’s obvious to both of you the situation is drawn, (for all you know white doesn’t realize this), and if that doesn’t result in a draw by repitition, then offer the draw. Do it for honor or whatever, or do it for practical reasons–so the game doesn’t have to go into a fifty-move-rule situation.
-FrL-
The OP was right to play on until this point though. I’ve seen the score of the game, and incredibly boneheaded moves could have occurred at any time.
Per chowder’s earlier reply, just about the only endings that can’t be won are bare king versus bare king, K and (B or N) v K, and K and B versus K and B with both bishops on same-coloured squares. But some that can be won need the loser’s cooperation.
Um, I was making a joke about ‘three ways’ because normally there are three possible results (win/draw/lose).
Seriously, this is a completely drawn position.
Try these drawn positions on a board at home:
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White Ka1; Black Kb3, pawn a3 (Black to move, but all White does is move between a1 and b1)
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White Kc1; Black Kb3,pawn a4 (Black to move, but either the White king reaches a1 as above, or the Black King gets stuck in a1 and can’t get out!)
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White Ka1, Rook h1; Black Kb3, Rook g3, pawn a3 (Black to move, but there is no way to make progress. White just moves his rook along the first rank.)
If white moves to Ka1, why don’t I just take his rook? (not meaning to be obtuse)