Sure, but that would be comparing a pure electric with a conventional. And that means no range. Gotta have a second car or rental for anything more than x miles.
But no! We can run on the gas option, in a Volt. Yes, but now don’t you have an ICE on board, and there goes most of your maintenance savings. Same with a hybrid, only more so, but now at least you don’t have to charge the thing.
I hadn’t paid $3000 in maintenance on my 8 year old Toyota Camry when I sold it in 2009. I had every receipt saved, and I did total it up. I am (really my wife is) fanatical about following the manufacturers maintenance schedule, so we didn’t skimp on anything. And I have spent most of that time in a very high cost area (Boston) and we have almost all the work done at the dealer. I don’t think I have ever spent $750-$1000 a year on maintenance (including repairs) on any car (even adjusted for inflation) over the last 25 years. We buy new Toyotas and Honda and run them for ~8years/100k miles. I am starting to get a bit skeptical about the yardstick used to measure the hybrids and EVs. Or maybe Big Three cars have a much more expensive maintenance regimen. I thought it was the other way around, imports were more expensive to maintain.
The Prius was about $3k more than replacing my Jetta.
The Jetta certainly drives better (not exactly a surprise), and the sight lines on the Prius suck.
But the Prius feels bigger on the inside - not sure if it actually is - and I’m getting about 55 MPG vs. the 28 I was getting in the Jetta. For the amount I drive, that’s about 190 gallons per year - $550 a year. Over the six years I own the car - financially it will be pretty much a wash - unless gas prices increase - which I expect they will. And although there are things I don’t like about the Prius, I do like it overall.
I don’t like the eco-impact of the battery, but I do like the smaller carbon footprint of burning less gas.
By trying to get an employer to charge cars of employees, you are now advocating adding to the daytime charging, for which we do not have electrical capacity.
Electricity is not free, and what employer wants to** increase** his costs of labor in todays economy?
NO. The infrastructure does NOT exist. We do not have any plug in facilities in any of our 50 states, we do not have any method of parking milllions of cars at the non-exsistant charging stations. We do not have any method of charging money for selling electricity at acharging stations and no means of making a profit on selling of an electrical charge. If there is no profit, then there is no electrical charging stations.
Lastly, the United States can not afford to build an electrical charging infrastructure. The United States has no money. The United States currently needs to borrow just for its current daily operations.
When you say that there are no plug-in facilities in the US, what do you mean? The Volt only draws as much current as a hair dryer, albeit for 8-12 hrs instead of 2 minutes. Most people that have a house have a 120V outlet near where they park. I have several suitable outlets in my garage.
Originally Posted by Susanann View Post
3. NO. The infrastructure does NOT exist. We do not have any plug in facilities in any of our 50 states, we do not have any method of parking milllions of cars at the non-exsistant charging stations. We do not have any method of charging money for selling electricity at acharging stations and no means of making a profit on selling of an electrical charge. If there is no profit, then there is no electrical charging stations.
Lastly, the United States can not afford to build an electrical charging infrastructure. The United States has no money. The United States currently needs to borrow just for its current daily operations.
I am driving to my fishing hole.
I am driving for a weekend getaway.
I am driving coast to coast.
I have to drive way out to Dulles Airport and back, and then take a client on a sight seeing tour.
I am a busy person and I dont have time, and I dont want to stop every hour to find a new different place to plug in, and to get out and and plug in to charge up, and then to sit and wait for a charge. My time is expensive, and you cant afford to hire me to sit and wait around for a charge.
There is no way I would waste man-years of time sitting around during my lifetime waiting for an electrical charge.
Anyway, there is no place in America’s vast lands set up to charge up a car battery.
…and dont even talk about waiting in line for a charge-up!!!1111
Are we still talking about the Volt or other battery electric vehicles (BEV)? The Volt, in particular, has an internal combustion engine. So when you go the fishing hole, going on a road trip, take clients on a site seeing tour, or simply don’t have time for a charge, you just go a regular gas station and fill up on some gasoline… same as any car. This is why I like the idea of the Volt. It gives you some of the advantage of an electric car without all the limitations.
I understand its a small car and it’s expensive, but I like the idea of the Volt, i like it’s technology and the technology that will come from it.
I’m not for mandating the Volt or BEVs, hell, i’m not even for the CAFE crap, I don’t think I would buy a Volt as it is today, but I don’t see how a few thousand battery electric vehicles is going to be any problem for our nation’s electrical infrastructure. I know some areas in the US have trouble with their electrical system, but I’m optimistic that we’ll work that out before BEVs make up a significant portion of cars on the road.
You’ve convinced me that a BEV wouldn’t work for you. Your other objections, not so much.
My toaster has this little knob on it that I turn, and it counts off variable amounts of time before it shuts off the heating elements. And when I park downtown, there are these things I put money into, and then turn a similar knob, beginning a countdown of my rental of a parking space. Surely somewhere there is an engineer who could cross my toaster with a parking meter to create a coin-fed, timer controlled, electrical charging device (especially at nominal US standard of 120 volt “house current”).
If McDonalds put these in its parking lots, and (thinking completely outside the box here) set the amount of coins required to an amount greater than the value of electricity delivered, McD could sell charging at a profit to customers who came inside to eat. Why, so could most any business with a parking lot and an electrical supply. Including businesses like bars and restaurants that are open at night.
Businesses could give electrical charging privileges to employees or selected employees as part of their compensation package (executive parking space comes complete with electricity), or at cost as a convenience to employees, or even take the McDonalds approach and charge their employees.
The grid may not exist today to support instantaneous conversion of the entire fleet of gasoline powered automobiles to electric, but it doesn’t have to. Conversion will be gradual, and as businesses find creative ways to exploit electric cars and electric car ownership, there will be both capital and incentive to assure that the grid keeps up.
And most people will still, most of the time, charge up overnight anyway. That is and will remain most people’s down time.
Just out of curiosity, what year is your Jetta? My wife has a 2001 SE and it drives much worse than my 2006 Prius. It practically redlines uphill, fills very sluggish, and has a larger turning radius.
I can also say it not only feels bigger, but definitely is bigger. I can’t sit in her passenger seat with a car seat behind me and I have to lean way back in the driver seat to not brush my head. I do agree with you about the sight lines (especially looking back), but I find that the back up camera makes up for it.
Wow. No place to charge huh? You better tell these guys that they don’t exist. They have a nation wide network of charging stations that you can either buy a subscription for or pay on site via your cell phone. And, what do you know they even have them at McDonalds:
Currently, they aren’t even close to everywhere. But they plan to on rolling out 4600 more stations.
It’s not at all comparable. When horseless carriages were first invented, there were very few places one could get gasoline. There really was a chicken-and-egg problem, where the gas station infrastructure and the car fleet had to both be built up at the same time. Now, though, we have a situation where nearly every building in the country already has the facilities to charge a car. There’s no chicken-and-egg problem, since the hens are all over the place.
Others have already responded, but just to defend myself:
I never suggested that it would be free to charge. I suggested that a place like McDonald’s–and thinking about it further, Sonic would make even more sense due to their business model, though without the geographic distribution–would find an advantage in installing charging stations to get more business. That, of course, is predicated on being able to go from the long charges needed for current technology to a much shorter one. Advances in battery technology would also be needed so that the recharging interval on a long trip would be similar to needing to get gas. If you could go 400 miles before having to recharge, are you seriously suggesting that you wouldn’t want to take a break, go to the restroom, and have a bite to eat?
Even if most people do use the drive-thru, that’s not the target in this case. I’d expect charging stations to pop up first at ones right off interstates. If you’re using the drive-thru, you’re probably on the way home and can charge up in your garage.
Yes, there would be an increase in power availability needed. But I wonder how it would compare to the power required to run the gas pump.
The infrastructure for using EVs as daily use cars by those who can plug in at home is already in place and the current grid can handle even half of the current fleet going electric all at once with no changes. The infrastructure to allow for apartment dwellers to charge at night is not in place, but will get there pretty quickly. The infrastructure to allow for cross country travel in a pure BEV is not in place.
As far as charging in business parking lots goes … the cost of the elecrtricity for an hour or two of charging is maybe 50 cents. The amount of spending the consumer does in that time, much more. A no brainer loss leader. Even for the charges at work - doubtful many would get to work on empty but even topping off 40 miles worth of capacity costs less than I spend on providing coffee per employee some days.
Free standing fast charge would charge a premium; polls show that consumers would expect 30% over the costs of charging slowly at home. The Project Better Place model expects to make its money on the charges and/or quck battery swaps as user plans like minutes on cell phones and sell cars at a discount to gget people into the plans. Not sure how that system will work but they will likely have some success in their first roll-out areas (places like Israel and Denmark).
For crying out loud ,it has a motor. when the electricity is gone you go 300 more on the gas. When you are doing day to day driving ,jess than 50 miles, you will not use gas.
Looking at the economics of the Volt from a pure return-on-investment is silly. If you want the best return on investment, buy a five year old car and drive it until it dies.
Anyone who buys a new car is not necessarily looking for the best return on investment. They are willing to pay a premium for reliability, status, and other intangibles.
For that matter, a BMW 325i is more than twice the price of a Cobalt, yet people still buy them. A Lexus is just a Toyota with some upgrades. An infiniti is just a Honda with some upgrades. Yet people pay far more money for them, even though they are exactly the same size as their lower-brand counterparts.
So how come the Volt has to be compared to a Cobalt? It has features the Cobalt doesn’t, you know. And not just in terms of gas mileage. For one thing, in electric mode it’s completely silent and vibration-free when ‘idling’ at a light. It has lots of low-end torque. It’s a really nice looking car. It will have all kinds of curb appeal because it will initially be rare. It makes a statement just like a sports car does.
It’s got way more interior quality than a Cobalt. It’s full of whiz-bang techie features. For example, there’s an iPhone app that allows you to check the car’s battery level, tire pressure, and other system status from anywhere in the world. That’s pretty damned cool. You can even use it to start the car.
If you want to compare the Volt to anything else, you should really be comparing it to compact luxury cars like the BMW 3 series or the Audi A4. And even then, you’re comparing apples and oranges.
Personally, I hated the GM bailout. And I don’t think it makes sense at this point to drive an electric to save the planet. But I’d still seriously look at a Volt, especially on lease, simply because it looks like a great toy for a tech nerd like me to play with. It would simply be fun.
Using the 240 volt charger to get the 4 hrs charging capacity equates to an hr of charge for 10 miles of travel. The cost of the fast charge units is $2,200 and that doesn’t include running a power station out to the parking lot. Unless it’s a store that caters to Hybrid glory hounds I don’t see how it will pay off as a loss-leader. The savings to the customer is minuscule compared to normal sales reductions.
Maybe down the line when the quick-charge battery makes it into the Volt and they extend the range a bit then getting 100 miles of energy in an hour would be a better draw.
On a side note, if these batteries come out in the near future then it’s really going to suck for those stuck with the slower charging batteries.
No, it’s more comparable to a Cobalt. When the batteries are exhausted you’re stuck with 84 hp engine trying to feed an electric motor. It won’t get out of it’s own way. MT review.
Hmmm… Let me know when you can drive it with the app. Then I’ll be able to remotely sneak up on people and run them over while maintaining the great alibi of being in a completely different state or country.
Oh wait :smack: I keep forgetting that I’m NOT a psychopath.
The benefit of store based charging to the BEV driving consumer is not saving the cost of the electricity, but the relief from range anxiety. The range on the Nissan Leaf, for example may be as good as 138 miles under ideal conditions, or as low as 62 miles in Winter stop and go with the heater running full blast. If a day’s worth of travel in Winter would be getting near 60 miles if I add the errand of heading to this or that store, then knowing I can top off an extra 10 miles worth while shopping may make it an easier choice. And let’s face it, the early adopters of this technology are the customers that many of these stores want: customers willing to pay a premium for the cool new toy and who in general are the ones who set the trends and talk up the places they like. In terms of the promotional budget a one time investment of $2000 or so, even a bank of 'em, is chump change for any business trying to attract a new adopter demographic.
What do I not like about the Leaf? Not included in the listed price is the cost of a home charging system (installed about $2000 with $1000 in tax credit back for now, per Nissan). Yes that will work with any additional EV, but still …
Personally I am happy that my Civic hybrid has at least a few years left. (I’ve got less than 80K on it.) By 2014 or 15, there will be many more options to choose from. I am very curious to see what the Ford Focus BEV will be priced at, for example.
Well you might have a point about stores that cater to early adopters and if nothing else you’ve said the words “early adopters” which I’ve been trying to remember for the last 2 weeks.
I wish I new the status of the fast charging batteries because I think that is the tipping point on electric cars. And there is no reason why a variable size ICE can’t be used to extend the range of the car so it’s fully functional.
