I like Mercedes’ idea of the diesel/electric hybrid. But I’m not a fan of diesels. Owned one, not a great car. Had lots of problems. We do make pretty good diesels now (this was LONG ago and an older car), it isn’t technology that hasn’t been in place for 30 years.
It’s quite the opposite in Europe because of the cost of fuel. The well was poisoned in America with the Oldsmobile diesel car. It was a spectacular failure at a time when virtually all large trucks were diesels. It wasn’t a new concept like a Wankel Rotary engine. It was just a bad engine.
I like the idea of an electric car but it should be able to be recharged in minutes and drive much further than 40 miles to be practical. I was expecting the new fast charging Li batteries to fulfill that role, at least the charging part.
Rolls Royce has been working on a diesel wankel engine. Since it would require a blower to work that means something in the way of a charged induction setup. I can see the theory behind this applied to an Atkinson Cycle engine which would greatly improve mechanical efficiency. It would then be a matter of mating up a 7 speed transmission for a purely diesel setup.
By default heating the car will come at an energy price. The windshield will probably have the gold film heating system developed years ago (I think Ford used it for a couple of years). Maybe the fallout of the Volt will be a cost reduction in this technology and it will filter down to all cars. If the ICE isn’t used for heat and cold air then the car will have to have some kind of heat pump.
I concur. This car is a game changer. The coolness factor alone will make it a smash hit. Haters gonna hate, but the proof will be in the pudding.
I will be interested to see the thing in person. It looks allright. If they can keep the cheese level down on the interior it will do very well. And think how quiet the cabin will be in electric mode. That right there is an amenity.
The design is not too exotic, that could be good or bad. Good for those that don’t want attention, bad for those that spend $40,000 and want people to know it. I’d probably think it was an Impala if I saw it on the road.
I’m not sure how quiet the car would be in pure electric mode, tires and wind noise are a pretty big factor. Any Prius or other electric owners want to chime in?
I was talking about this car with a friend, while riding in his SUV. He, as most Americans seem programmed to do, mentioned the range issue.
His daily commute is 4.1 miles
He’s a manager at a sports bar, and I feel quite confident they would allow him to plug into their electrical outlet.
The part that is baffling to me is why he would ask this. He knows how close his workplace is to his home. All I can think is that it is some kind of cultural osmosis at work.
The design of the Prius is frequently cited as one of the reasons for its success,even when it was priced way too high. It’s vewry distinctive body shape made it instantly recognizable and was a badge to those who owned it.
Of course that was a while ago, things have changed, so we’ll see. I just am not convinced that folks will be lining up for this car. But I have been wrong before.
The EPA had some preliminary testing procedure that spat out the 230s number when GM tried to apply it to the Volt. They haven’t released that procedure to the public, and did some quick back tracking when GM started using the number in ads. We still don’t know what the MPG sticker will looklike for the Volt.
The battery pack should never drain entirely. Once it’s discharged to a certain level, the gas engine kicks on to retain that state of charge in the battery. The physical force to propel the car is always from the electric motors. The Prius is significantly different.
GM did an exhaustive study and found that 80 percent of the people travel less than 40 miles a day. That is why they went ahead with it. As time goes on the batteries will be improved. That is how things work. The VOLT is a very good idea but they took too long getting it out.
you answered your own question with the bolded words. Why does a guy with a short 4.1 mile commute drive an SUV? Answer-- it’s cultural osmosis.
In American culture, cars are not just a means of transportation— they are a status symbol. This is true, of course, in most countries—but it is even more deeply imbedded American society than in most other countries.
And also, remember that America is a big, big place.
People like to drive long distances.And --even if they don’t actually do it, they like to imagine that they can…It’s something to do with the cultural meme of the cowboy… riding across the wide-open plains, free and independent.
A car represents freedom…and nobody wants to own something that limits their freedom to 40 miles.
Try to imagine the Marlboro Man—but limping along on a horse with a broken leg.
My commute is 36 miles per day, 18 miles each way, on the days I don’t take public transportation. On the days I do take it, my commute is 1.5 miles each way.
As a current Nissan owner, I got an “invite” to reserve a Nissan Leaf. I seriously considered it, but I am not in the market for a new car. My 2002 Sentra has barely 60K on it and I am not ready to get rid of it. I am a firm believer that my car should last me 10 yrs before I feel the need to sell it.
My in-laws have a house in Snowmass, CO. My husband and I are considering moving there full-time in a few years. I doubt the current electric technology will get me up the driveway to the house when there is snow on the ground. There are people with Prius’s out there, but I don’t think they take them into the mountains.
For those complaining about the 40 miles all-electric range: consider that the battery is the most expensive part in the whole car, and very heavy as well. It makes sense to make it rather small as long as you have the range extending ICE, just big enough to cover the commute of most people.
This is the key difference to an all-electric car, where you’ve got a hard limit on the range and even longer charging times. Until battery technology improves quite a bit, plug-in hybrids are the way to go IMO.
That is exactly why I bought my big honkin’ motorcycle rather than a vastly more affordable commuter scooter. :smack: I wanted something highway capable because dammit, I was gonna go on these amazing long distance bike tours with “Born to be Wild” playing in the background.
Turns out long distance driving is waaaay more comfortable in a car, and the bike is waaaay too much power for my intracity 20-mile daily commute. It sees a lot less use than it should.
The Volt’s range is 340 miles. Farther than my wife’s Hyundai Santa Fe.
Many people use their cars to tow with and this car would automatically be eliminated from that market. The ability to tow something allows a trailer to be used in place of a 2nd vehicle such as a truck. Diesels provide both towing capacity with mileage similar to hybrids. This means more people can use them for a given purpose.
I’d be willing to bet that less than 5% of car owners ever tow anything.
The range of a Volt is 40 miles on batteries. below that number you are driving at a penny a mile. Above that the cost goes up significantly. At the rated 236 mpg it is not cost effective against a diesel.
I’m not sure how they came up with 236 mpg. If the average car is driven 12,000 miles a year that averages out to 33 miles a day. If all the driving is don for work then its 46 miles per day. Either way I would expect the average to be higher. That could change things considerably. Even the Prius’s mileage varies greatly depending on how hilly the terrain is and how much stop and go driving is done.
As to how many are sold, that will depend on the results of the first wave of purchases. GM has a poor track record of introducing new technology. If the windshield heaters fail or the computers crap out then the car will join the Oldsmobile diesel and the EV-1 in the scrapheap of good intentions.
5% of a potential market is significant. Toyota has a strong track record with the Prius so I’m not sure where the customer base is. I’m sure Toyota lost money on it when it was first introduced. I’d like to be a fly on the wall of the marketing department to see what their survey data shows.
Ed Begley Jr. and Jay Leno will buy one for the bragging rights. There is certainly a niche market for people who like new technology (there’s a name for them and I can’t think of it off hand). But people who need to rely on the car are going to wait for those who can afford to gamble on the reliability.
5% isn’t really much in the car market, where there are a ton of brands. After all, the SmartCar has a market - and that’s a tiny little overpriced two seater.
I live in the Land of 10,000 Lakes to tow your boat/snowmobile to. People who are in the market for something to tow their boat don’t buy little commuter cars, they buy SUVs. Hybrids and EVs aren’t competing with the towing market.
I think it will fail, but I think its a prince and time to market issue - plus that GM couldn’t manage to market beer at a football game, not that it can’t tow or only goes 40 miles as an EV.
My commute is kind of long - 26 miles. But if I could only use 12 miles of gas a day in a car that got 30 miles to the gallon as a gas car once the batteries were more or less drained, it would still be a “savings” in gas and reduce my carbon footprint. And that is how people are going to look at it.