alice_in_wonderland wrote:
So, tell us: When you have a brand new hairdo, and your eyelashes all in curl, do you, in fact, float like the clouds on air do? 
Oh yes. And my Wonderbra not only lifts, it separates too! 
Waaaaaaait a second … wonderbras are supposed to perform their wonder by doing the opposite of separating.
(I always did wonder, after I was old enough to understand breast aesthetics, why the old bra commercials boasted about how their bras lifted and separated. Why would you want to nullify your own cleavage?)
Because you are wearing ashirt/blouse/sweater with a high neckline. In outfits like that perky, defined breasts look better than smooshed-together ones.
Back to the the OP, I agree that it is the sexuality of these pagents that elevates them from silly to disturbing. The makeup alone is creepy: the basis for what looks “good” in adult makeup is that which makes a woman look aroused: wide eyes, flushed cheeks, red wet lips. Now, i am willing ot believe that most pagent mothers don’t think this through, but I wish they would.
This is exactly my problem with these kinds of “pageants” as well. The early sexualization of young girls. alice, I’m glad your experience wasn’t like that, either, but it does appear to have skewed your worldview a little. (Either the pageants or your having gone to finishing school, anyway ;)). Appearance is not an accomplishment, and as far as being well-groomed and polite and all the rest of that, heck, I had that by the end of elementary school. Boobs, too. :eek:
Tangent notwithstanding, I’m enough of a feminist to have objections to all “beauty pageants” (scholarship programs, whatever) because they encourage objectification of other human beings. Period.
I dunno… I have to agree with alice on this, at least from the vantage point of my limited experience.
While I never participated in children’s beauty pageants, I have modeled on and off since I was three years old, and also did a stint in finishing school.
I feel that what I gained from these experiences, namely, poise, attention to good grooming, and proficiency in the finer points of basic etiquette helped give me the confidence that helped me later in life professionally and socially. I was a nerdy kid by nature. Doing fashion shows and later TV commercials and theatrical productions taught me how to carry myself well and definitely helped me out of my shell.
Far from being a negative or scary experience, my time spent in these activities boosted my self confidence. It was special, and it was fun. It got me through the “dark days” of adolescence quite admirably.
The idea of dressing up young children to look like adults is, most probably in the mind of the kid, just that: Dress Ups. As long as the parents enjoy the competition and have fun with it, I think the kids will echo that tone and have fun too, learning to value the fun to be had in the activity itself, and not simply winning. And if the emphasis is more on the fun, moderation in expectations and spending (on travel, entrance fees and costumes) should ideally follow.
There will always be people who go overboard in their desire to live their lives through their childrens’ activities; but I don’t think you can point an accusatory finger solely at parents who enter their kids in pageants.
Gotta say that’s dead-on, in my view. If all kiddy pageants were outlawed tomorrow, the psycho parents of the Creepy Pageant scene would proceed to fubar their children in other ways. Figure skating and gymnastics and ballet and whatnot, most likely.
Also will note that all pageants, child and adult, have always creeped me out on some visceral level. Then again, I’ve never found heavy make-up attractive in any way, don’t care for long nails at all (I’d rather my back not be in shreds, for one thing 
), and the closer a woman is to stereotpically surface-dolled-up girly-girl in general, the less attractive I’m likely to find her–again, in general. But that’s far more of a personal aesthetic judgment than a moral one.
The only “future” I saw discussed was when Swan’s mother took her to a coaching session at Shane & Michael’s house. Swan was swimming in the pool, and her mom said she was glad that Swan had the opportunity to experience their home, because she wanted Swan to grow up with a taste for “the finer things.” Where those “finer things” were going to come from, she didn’t say. Frankly, I think she’s going to be setting up Swan for a lot of disappointment and dissatisfaction in the future. I mean, spending $70,000 for a $2,500 prize (the amount she won at the last, “big” pageant) isn’t exactly sound financial planning. And my guess is that the $2,500 went right back into pageant stuff, rather than any kind of college fund/nest egg for the future.
I found the whole thing creepy. Tarting up a 5-year-old to look and strut like a 35-year-old hooker just isn’t attractive, and I can’t believe all those people really think so. I’ll freely admit that I’m a makeup/beauty product junkie, but geez. I once had a “Glamour Shot” taken and they didn’t use that much goop on me.
Yes, but I’m right. (Kidding! That was a joke!) I suppose I am generalizing from what I saw. I apologize for taking an HBO documentary at face value-- it was so unflinching and well-put-together that it was hard not to get caught up in how they portrayed the pageants. If you tell me that for you and lots of other girls, the experience was nothing more than glorified dress-up, I’ll believe you. And if your parents didn’t go overboard and spend a gazillion dollars and hours on that, so much the better. I truly hope that your experience is the norm.
That said, I stand by my assessment of the pageants as a whole. The adult versions are silly enough, but at least there’s informed consent involved. With children, it still strikes me as a mix of obscene and absurd. The makeup and sexual overtones are creepy, and I can’t see at as anything else.
For the parents who do spend so much money on the pageants, I think it’s rather tragic. That money could be so much more wisely invested in music lessons, a college fund, athletic involvement, tutoring, summer camp, you name it. If it’s an occasional weekend thing, fine. But a designer dress for a child is stupid, that’s all there is to it.
Child beauty pageants strike me as a petty evil. Wasting money and other family resources on such things is low on the scale of Bad Things in my mind, but I still wish they didn’t exist. Children should not be objectified, ever. Simple as that.
In what way is my world view skewed? Because I acknowledge that fact that REGARDLESS of what people say, appearance IS important? You can be as PC as you want, but at the end of the day looks still count for something. Certainly not EVERYTHING, and there are qualities that are MUCH more important, but to completely discount appearance and grooming is naive.
[QUOTE]
Appearance is not an accomplishment, and as far as being well-groomed and polite and all the rest of that, heck, I had that by the end of elementary school. Boobs, too. :eek:/QUOTE]
Congratuations on your boobs. Appearance is not an accomplishment, you are correct. However, how many people do you know that are afraid/intimidated by public speaking? I belive the statistics are somewhere in the range of 95% - higher than those afraid of death, incidentally. Well, surprise, surprise, all that early childhood experience on stage has left me… completely at ease speaking publicly. I have no problem whatsoever. This is a skill/accomplishment that has absolutly nothing to do with appearance, but I still learned it at pageants.
In what way is my world view skewed? Because I acknowledge that fact that REGARDLESS of what people say, appearance IS important? You can be as PC as you want, but at the end of the day looks still count for something. Certainly not EVERYTHING, and there are qualities that are MUCH more important, but to completely discount appearance and grooming is naive.
[QUOTE]
Appearance is not an accomplishment, and as far as being well-groomed and polite and all the rest of that, heck, I had that by the end of elementary school. Boobs, too. :eek:/QUOTE]
Congratuations on your boobs. Appearance is not an accomplishment, you are correct. However, how many people do you know that are afraid/intimidated by public speaking? I belive the statistics are somewhere in the range of 95% - higher than those afraid of death, incidentally. Well, surprise, surprise, all that early childhood experience on stage has left me… completely at ease speaking publicly. I have no problem whatsoever. This is a skill/accomplishment that has absolutly nothing to do with appearance, but I still learned it at pageants.
I leanred not to be afraid of public appearances by being on stage singing in elementary school and Junior High. Fortunately, I didn’t have to put on any make up or poof out my hair, but I did have to dress up in fancy clothes (e.g. shirts with ties, suit jackets, choir robes, etc.).
In what way is my world view skewed? Because I acknowledge that fact that REGARDLESS of what people say, appearance IS important? You can be as PC as you want, but at the end of the day looks still count for something. Certainly not EVERYTHING, and there are qualities that are MUCH more important, but to completely discount appearance and grooming is naive.
[QUOTE]
Appearance is not an accomplishment, and as far as being well-groomed and polite and all the rest of that, heck, I had that by the end of elementary school. Boobs, too. :eek:/QUOTE]
Congratuations on your boobs. Appearance is not an accomplishment, you are correct. However, how many people do you know that are afraid/intimidated by public speaking? I belive the statistics are somewhere in the range of 95% - higher than those afraid of death, incidentally. Well, surprise, surprise, all that early childhood experience on stage has left me… completely at ease speaking publicly. I have no problem whatsoever. This is a skill/accomplishment that has absolutly nothing to do with appearance, but I still learned it at pageants.
alice, the only thing I can offer about the first part of my post is that I’m not sure what my point was, either. Sorry - that will learn me to post after a half-bottle of wine and less than 2 hours of sleep. :o
Also, I thought I’d deleted the boobies thing. Mea Culpa - it was part of a paragraph I decided against posting, because even I could tell that the deleted paragraph didn’t make sense.
However, my point is that “stage fright” et. al. can be overcome without the sort of pre-hypersexualization of young women we see in these sorts of pageants. Much like tracer, I got over my fear of public speaking through Camp Fire, piano recitals, a required section of public speaking in junior high. I also went to (and hated) a couple of…well, they certainly weren’t finishing schools. “Poise seminars” is the only way I can think of to describe them…when I was in junior high.
Also, I said nothing about grooming. There is a difference between appearance and grooming, although grooming can affect appearance, either positively or negatively (as in the smelly co-worker thread in MPSIMS).