I wouldn’t be surprised if this topic had been covered in a previous Great Debate, but my interest in the topic was renewed after this Sunday’s episode of HBO’s “America Undercover.” This week’s episode focused on a mother and her five-year-old daughter who competed in a lot of child beauty pageants. My roommates and I watched it like a car wreck-we couldn’t turn it off while we watched the mother drill her daughter on her dance moves on a makeshift stage in their hot garage, haul her all over the country for pageants and talk about how her “boyfriend” invests money in her daughter’s preparation.
There was plenty of indignation in our living room-why in the hell would anyone cake their five-year-old in makeup and tell seven-year-olds that, since they’re older, they can “flirt with the judge a little bit?”
At the end of the episode, the little girl does win a pageant, and $2,500. A caption mentions the mother estimated she had spent $70,000 so far on pageants, photos, coaches, etc? This woman has three other kids, one of whom a 15-year-old boy who runs away from home halfway through the episode and ends up in a juvenile detention center.
My question: Why the hell would anyone do this to their children? Do these people care they’re turning their children into sex objects as children? Do they think becoming Little Miss Whatever will actually give their children any benefit that will last longer than the rhinestone crown fits?
We could apply the question to gymnastics and tennis as well. It is quite possible that some of those kids really do enjoy doing the whole pageant thing. But I have to admit I’m a bit disturbed about any organization that dresses young girls like whores. I suppose if anything the pageants might teach kids how to handle rejection.
Oh, and I wouldn’t judge all pageant parents by what you saw in the documentary. I saw the “documentary” Trekkies and it appeared to me that they picked the worst examples of fans you could find in the galaxy.
[li]Mothers who want to live out their dreams through their children. Notice the heavy and/or unattractive women in the HBO special pushing their children to be “beautiful,” possibly because the pain of their own failure to live up to American cultural standards of beauty has convinced them that beauty is the greatest gift which they can give a child and the simultaneous source and emblem of success. Having “failed” at being beautiful, they may equate beauty with self-worth for the child and the ability to create beauty with proof of their own worth as human beings and as mothers. They may translate their own childhood daydreams about how much better life would be if they were beautiful into a determination that their children will reap the benefits of beauty. The bizarre, utterly artificial caricature of beauty presented by the beauty pageant children, with their rouged cheeks, big hair and false eyelashes, resembles nothing so much as a little girl’s plastic dress-up doll. By turning their children into these doll-like figures, the mothers are living out their childhood fantasies of beauty through their daughters. (No, this is not an indictment of all heavy or unattractive women. I am quite obese myself, and can understand the lure of this particular trap. If anything, it is an indictment of the media and the societal obsession with beauty which encourages women to grow up with such twisted values.)[/li][li]Parents who (unrealistically) hope their children will become stars so they can live off their money.[/li][li]Parents who hope their children’s “fame” will make them (the parents) seem more important.[/li][li]Parents who don’t know the difference between a Barbie doll and a real child with needs and emotions, and who don’t know the difference between their own needs and the needs of their children.[/li][li]“Glamour by proxy!” I am thinking particularly of the gay couple in the HBO special, who not only make their living as beauty pageant coaches, but who make their own daughter look like a tiny little drag queen – painted, glittery, and utterly artificial. She reminded me of the Bob Mackie Barbie collection. (No, this is not an indictment of gay men, either!)[/li][li]Pageant promoters who make a fortune by exploiting the vanity of the parents.[/li][/ol]
In addition to the relentless nagging that little Swan’s mother inflicted on her child, I thought the saddest thing about the HBO special was the rigid, mask-like faces of the children as they performed. What is to become of little girls (and the few little boys in competition) after they grow up to believe that the best way to win love is to face the world from behind a rictus of artificial joy and to use their bodies in an endless mock mating display that bears little or no relation to their real feelings? Remember the scene where Swan panicked because she thought she had forgotten her routine – because there was no routine? What happens to a child who has forgotten how to act naturally?
Watched the same thing. We’d seen something similar, a series on competitions hosted by Terry Bradshaw. One episode focused on kid pageants, and gave a view of a less hateful mother but my overall impressions are the same.
I’ve thought about this a lot, and while there is much of it I don’t like, I decided that the pageants would be less objectionable to me if the kiddie participants were forbidden to wear makeup or hair extensions in competition. It’s disturbing enough to see kids pushed; it’s worse to see them pushed into doing things that make them look more adult and sexual, and that send the message that one’s own natural self isn’t good enough.
I don’t know if that adds to the debate, but I guess I’d ask if it’s that component of it (children wearing adult clothing, makeup, and overall acting like miniature, sexual adults) that bothers people, or something else. That’s what really creeps me out.
The thing is, the one guy-Shane? He would have made a MUCH better music or gym teacher for kids-because he was so enthusiastic, and funny and good with children. But instead, they’re out there…those disgusting pageants.
And one thing that bothers me-if they ARE going to have child beauty pageants, why can’t they LOOK LIKE CHILDREN?
Why not have the girls wear no makeup, little kiddie dresses, and instead of bump and grind do little Shirley Temple routines, or something like that?
I wanted to smack Robyn when her son ran away-hello-isn’t it obvious? He seemed like a sweet boy-he loved his brother and sisters, but he was obviously looking for attention-why the HELL didn’t Robin run right home when she was told he was missing?
And I thought little Leslie looked way better without that special teeth flippie thingy. The kids looked sooooo pretty without all the makeup…so sweet.
Little Swan was so adorable, but her mother was turning her into a doll…she looked scary.
When I was a little girl, I PARTICIPATED in pagents. I have stacks of photos of my self at age 3, 4, 5, etc. with my hair done up it toss curls, tonnes of make up, fancy little outfits, etc, etc.
Before you start condeming my mom, however, I do have to say it was really harmless. I remember getting ready with my mom doing my hair and make up. I remember shopping for dance shoes and outfits. It was great. I was a particularly “girly” little girl (I still am actually - hyper feminine has been used to describe me) and had a super time.
As far as long term effects - well, I’m particularly well groomed. However, I’m also very successful, well balanced and fun. I’m not a total airhead. I’m not obsessed with my appearance, or anything else that I hear suggested as consequences of these things.
I’m sure that the parents in the documentary were particularly bad (otherwise, whats the fun in making the documentary) however, I know soccer coaches and hockey moms that are just as obnoxious, demanding and unsupportive of their kids.
When I was growing up I participated in artistic roller skating (like ice figure skateing but on wheels). While artistic roller skating is very athletic, it also has an aspect of dressing up.
As a little kid my mom would help me put on makeup (she always liked blue eye shadow, which I thought was cheesey), my coach would put my hair up in elaborate ways, and grandma and I would design cute sparkly outfits for my routines.
I always recognized that the dressing up aspect of it was something that was seperate from my everyday life. I recognized the theatricality of the whole thing. I also loved it. I got to wear wonderful fantastic sparkly clothes and play “dress up”. I remember eagerly looking forward to seeing what our costumes would look like for group routines. I also remember the ritual of picking out fabric, going to the dressmaker, visiting the beading store (my favorite part) and sewing on countless sequins. I loved every bit of it. I always kind of wanted to be a fairly princess and here was my chance.
Granted, artistic roller skating is a bit different because it is based on an athletic persuit. Of course there were some pushy mothers, but I think there are pushy mothers in everything. I came out unharmed. I certainly didn’t grow up to be appearance obsessed (in fact quite the opposite). I have uncombed pink hair and wear exclusivly thrift store clothes. I’ll grant that I own a tiara that I’ll wear to classes every once in a while, but we all need a little bit of fairy princess, don’t we?
and I have to say, these things are a pedophile’s dream. Young and tender, yet tarted up so one might delide oneself into believe it’s somehow alright.
But aside from that, the mom was not evil, just really a mess. Clueless and desperate to have something decent out of life, and in her screwed up head, this is it. If I were her older kids, and I was informed that I would not being going to college because 70,000 went to my baby sister’s beauty pageants…well, I’d have a problem with that. And I’m pretty certain that’s going to be the case.
The whole thing is creepy as hell, and the problem I have with it is that it is putting the emphasis in the single most meaningless and cheap place possible: appearance.
Awful, really awful.
But the documentary was some great entertainment! LOVED the gay coach couple, completely surreal.
I agree; in the pageant Swan ended up winning, she looked utterly terrified when she came out. I realize part of it may have been that she hasn’t learned to really fake a smile (make her eyes crinkle, etc.), but it looked like terror to me. She looked sad and scared in another scene as well, that time only practicing in the garage with her mom haranguing her.
MGibson, even if they did pick the very worst mom (which I doubt), they balanced it with the men who earned their living coaching. They were entirely positive with the girls, and very supportive. Nevertheless, the whole thing was creepy, to say the least. The children were taught to look and act MUCH older. Even with the loving support of parents, and even if the kids are doing it of their own volition (as much as that’s possible), it’s still wrong, IMHO.
I don’t think the comparisons to skating or gymnastics are wholly valid, either. The point of the pageants was to turn children into beautiful objects, simply to be gazed upon and for all I know lusted after. The girls were in heavy, very adult makeup; the “sportswear” competition was based on form-fitting outfits, complete with jackets taken off and swung around, for the sake of the outfits; don’t even get me started on the part when some guy in a tux comes onstage and croons a love song to the girls, who then have to look at him and smile (“flirt”, as the parents put it).
In skating and gymnastics, real athleticism is involved. The kids are demonstrating skills in which physical appearance is a by-product. They don’t wear leotards because they’re sexy, they wear them because it allows freedom of movement.
I appreciate the comments from alice_in_wonderland and even sven, but even for the girls who enjoy themselves in the pageants, there is still something very much wrong with forcing children to be judged on how well they can mimic adult behavior and appearance.
Why? Because when they grow up, they WON’T be judged on their appearance or behaviour?
Looks aside, poise and charm are characteristics that go a long way in facilitating a persons success. These are both traits that I developed by participating in pagents, and later at finishing school.
Regardless of your opinion of the “creepyness” of pagents, and you are entitled to it, teaching young girls to present themselves in the most positive way is not something that should be demonized. It’s a fun thing for some little girls to do.
Also, I have no doubt that I was just as attractive to a peadophile when dressed “glam” as I was when I was just wearing shorts and a t-shirt, playing in the sandbox.
Lighten up already - I participated in pagents, and can say from first hand experience, I’m no worse for the wear.
Why? Because when they grow up, they WON’T be judged on their appearance or behaviour?
Looks aside, poise and charm are characteristics that go a long way in facilitating a persons success. These are both traits that I developed by participating in pagents, and later at finishing school.
Regardless of your opinion of the “creepyness” of pagents, and you are entitled to it, teaching young girls to present themselves in the most positive way is not something that should be demonized. It’s a fun thing for some little girls to do.
Also, I have no doubt that I was just as attractive to a peadophile when dressed “glam” as I was when I was just wearing shorts and a t-shirt, playing in the sandbox.
Lighten up already - I participated in pagents, and can say from first hand experience, I’m no worse for the wear.
Ugh, I just caught the HBO Undercover documentary, and I have to agree–Cree-pee.
I can’t argue against all those positive elements alice_in_wonderland mentions–except that the same thing could be accomplished if the little girls were trying to look like pretty little girls instead of miniature refugees from a TNN casting call.
It was just downright disturbing to see those tiny bodies with out-of-proportion, adult-looking, made-up faces stuck on top–and that totally artificial-looking bleach-blond hair? They looked like little animated Barbie dolls from Hell.
The little girl with the deer-in-the-headlights smile looked so much more beautiful when she was laughing and playing with her balloon than when she was strutting around trying to look grown-up.
We missed the first half hour of the program (it was Jackass night, for shit’s sake) but the rest of it made me glad I didn’t see it all. Anyone who says this shit is healthy for children is out of his or her everlovin’ mind. The five year old seemed truly starved for love - I have agonized over the scene where her harpy mother is yapping at her to “Do it right, just one time, hurry up, etc…” in the hallway, and she keeps asking her mom for a hug. Fucking sickening. I nearly dropped my teeth when the little girl began talking about whether or not she’d won, and the mother says something like, “Believe me, you LOST.” The whole thing was truly nauseating.
And Alice, not to nitpick, well, yeah, to nitpick…maybe if your mom had spent a little time with you on the spelling bee circuit, they’d have taught you not to spell it “pagent”.
I suspected this would get a lot of replies-someone even brought it up on the newsgroup. It’s just one of those subjects that begs to be discussed.
One thing that strikes was the pointlessness of the quest for beauty pageant crowns. My mom used to urge me to enter beauty pageants when I was a teenager, saying that Miss America could be anything she wanted. She meant I could use it as a springboard for a career, but that always sounded like bullshit to me. I can’t think of any well-respected writers, artists, musicians, professionals, etc. who won Miss America.
I admit I might have missed it, but at any point in the documentary did Swan’s mother mention any plans for her child’s future? Even something like a modeling contract? I can’t recall any mention of future plans. Was she just going to keep entering her in pageants until she hit her twenties?
Hey, if you want to slag my spelling, which is appalling, I freely admit, go right ahead. But leave my mom out of it. It’s snitty, and not very nice besides.
Of course they will. When they grow up. I understand that grooming and hygiene are important life skills that kids need to learn. With rare exceptions, they do learn it in plenty of time to be pleasantly scented, coiffed and dressed adults. I will also agree that children are socially judged on their appearance and self-control no matter what, it’s just far more a reflection on their parents than the children themselves.
What bothers me most is that these pageants are focused on how young girls (and boys) look, how prettily they can mimic the (as far as I can tell) rhinestone cowgirl aesthetic. Can they sing a song and stick with the heavily choreographed gestures? Can they strut down a runway and show a little skin on demand? Can they transform their faces and hair into wholly artificial constructions of glamour? It’s a waste and, to me, more than a little horrible.
I disagree that they are being taught to present themselves in the most positive way. Being charming and poised is fine, but isn’t it better to be educated, well-rounded, active? Many of the participants may be all those things, but the focus of the adults dragging their little beauties through the pageant circuits were certainly not focused on engendering any of those traits in their children. Look at the money spend on a DRESS, for the love of God! One was like $1,800! While your own experience may have been nothing but fun for you, and you certainly didn’t come out of it warped, I don’t feel comfortable expanding your experience to all pageant participants.
In short, playing dress up is fun. It still is. But to force a mere child to concentrate only on dressing up and to what extend she succeeds in presenting an illusion is… unbalanced. Girls have ony a limited time to just be kids, with no pressure to be beautiful or live up to expectations about their looks. Why railroad them into it?
For now, I’ll leave it at this:
Which would you be happier to see?
A five-year-old with grass stains on her knees, tangled hair, a ring of chocolate ice cream around her mouth, and pen marks on her hands (my niece pretty much all the time)
or
A five-year-old in a designer sequinned dress, with hair a foot wide, in lipstick, mascara, foundation, blush and eyeshadow?
I know which one I’d pick, and I bet I know which one is having a better time being a kid.
But, you’re expanding the experience of the pageant participants featured in the documentary to all pp’s. The program focused on the extreme side of pagents - it showed the worst of the worst. I agree that spending $1,800 on a dress is absurd - unless I was getting married, I wouldn’t do it now. However, because SOME mothers are loonie and maniacal, and SOME mothers push their children to far, and SOME mothers put too much emphasis on looks, doesn’t mean that ALL mothers do. I am meerly offering antidotal evidence that pageants, in and of themselves, are not a horrible thing. I had a perfectly normal childhood. In addition to my “glam shots” I have lots of pics of me with ketchup on my head, or mud on my face, or grass stains here there and everywhere.
It’s unfair to slam pageant participants and their moms outright, based on a biased program. If Dateline (or whoever) did an expose on militant little-league coaches, or hyper-demanding hockey dads, those activities would come across as evil as well.
Yes, it is unbalanced, if thats what you do. However, I also did years of dance and gymnastics, art club, educational enrichment, piano and… pageants.
It IS possible to participat in a pageant, without it taking over your whole life.
The focus should be on the poor parenting displayed by the moms in the documentary, rather than the EVIL of BEAUTY PAGEANTS.
How about both? Then you have a farily accurate picture of my childhood. (Well, I never had a designer sequinned dress. DAMN!)