p.s. Not all of the people who’ve been the victim of such a crime are delighting in that former priest’s death.
Where did I say it was? I don’t know if it IS, or is not a “more moral outlook” on this situation. That’s up to God to decide.
But on this thing? Again, I’d cheerfully pay GOOD money to see one of these creatures get back the same thing they did to generations of innocent children.
Nightime: You called it.
I think it’s horrible he was killed for being a homosexual, as opposed to being a child molester. Other than that, I don’t have any remorse on hearing the news - if that makes me a bad person, I guess it is what it is.
You might also feel differently if you YOURSELF were the victim of such a crime.
I changed my mind, instead of being subjected to the same thing the victims went through, I’d like to see him being subjected to the victims themselves Having them recount what it did to them.
And to make a tape loop of such and run it in his cell 24/7 (different ones of course, so he wouldn’t get “used to them”).
Of course, he might enjoy that too much. Of course he might enjoy the first too much too.
Argggh. A “Ministry of Love” devised torture method then.
I was wondering how long it would be before someone jumped to that conclusion, CanvasShoes. Apparently, only you know what’s right and what’s wrong…er, “deserved” and to heck with those who did suffer but aren’t as vengeful.
What conclusion? And as I stated above, I make NO pretensions in this thread to "knowing what is right or wrong"or being on the moral high ground, or anything CLOSE to that, in this instance.
I know how I feel, and the above posts of mine state that quite clearly.
Why, the bit about feeling differently of course.
So, if you feel that it’s so right (deserved) that this person got murdered, what should the legal reward be for the person who carried out the murder?
i guess you haven’t been to this site
http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hitler.html
you can’t blame them for their ignorance after reading this thread i don’t see the difference between them and some of the posters here
http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hitler.html
Gays recognize pedophiles as prophets
“…one of the primary goals of the homosexual rights movement is to abolish all age of consent laws and to eventually recognize pedophiles as the ‘prophets’ of a new sexual order.” - “Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys,” Family Research Council publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
Undercurrent of pedophilia in gay subculture
“There is a strong undercurrent of pedophilia in the homosexual subculture” - Robert Knight, Family Research Council, http://www.frc.org/insight/is93f1hs.html
Gays support pedophilia
“Prominent homosexual leaders and publications have voiced support for pedophilia, incest, sadomasochism, and even bestiality.” - American Family Association, http://www.afa.net, Homosexuality in America: Exposing the Myths.
Gays want to have sex with boys
“This is ultimately about the protection of America’s youth from such groups as NAMBLA and militant homosexuals who seek to lower the age of consensual sexual intercourse between homosexual men and young boys to the age of fourteen” - Charles Socarides, on the board of NARTH and the other top ‘ex-gay’ psychiatrist, from NARTH’s Web site, http://www.narth.com/docs/1995papers/socarides.html
Gays seduce young boys
“Practicing sadistic sex and seducing young boys is not uncommon among homosexuals.” - Reed Irvine, Accuracy in Media, Dec. 2, 1999.
Gays propagandize to children
“In fact, most mothers are more concerned with protecting their children from homosexual activists, who insist on their supposed ‘right’ to propagandize young schoolchildren.” Jul 12, 98 - Americans for Truth About Homosexuality press release, organization run by Peter LaBarbera, who is also a Family Research Council employee.
Gays seduce children
“The seductions of the homosexual lobby are being brought to your children in your school, and that seduction is followed by destruction.” - Steve Schwalm, Family Research Council, WHY SCHOOLS ARE TEACHING YOUR KIDS ABOUT HOMOSEXUALITY, May 14, 1998, http://www.frc.org/podium/pd98i1hs.html
Gays want access to children
“Gaining access to children has been a long-term goal of the homosexual movement.” - “Homosexual Activists Work to Normalize Sex With Boys,” Family Research Council publication, July 1999, http://www.frc.org/misc/bl057.pdf
Gays want to steal innocence from children
“There are those in our school systems that say the homosexual has every right to influence our children. Why, let them steal the innocence of our children?” - Paul Volle, Chairman, Christian Coalition of Maine, “The Gay Agenda,” October 1998
Paging Esprix! Paging Esprix! Otto! gobear! Please report to this thread, immediately! Thank you!
Would you kindly state your question in a clear and concise manner?
You aren’t making the least bit of sense. Do you know how to use the 'quote" function? Please do. Because asking some question, without referring the person of whom you’re asking it, to what it is you’re trying to find out from them doesn’t work.
In the mean time, I’ll attempt to guess.
This “concusion” that you seem to believe I’ve reached. Is it correct to say that you think that I believe that “repaying” the child molester in kind is morally okay, but murdering him is not?
If that’s what you believe I believe, you’re mistaken. I have reached NO moral decision regarding this man’s fate on EITHER grounds.
I do not hold up either way to be more, OR less morally “correct” than the other.
CanvasShoes:
Did you or did you not post this:
and this?
and this?
just to mention a few of your "enlightened"postings.
So, yes, you did make a postive assertion that those who molest get a particular punishment in jail. You even asserted that it would be good entertainment for you (that whole paying good money thing) to watch a particular punishment.
So, now that we’ve established that, how about answering the question? What, exactly, should the reward be for those who dispense the “deserved” punishment? What punishment should murderers get? How about those who murderers who are awaiting their own execution but manage to inflict this “deserved” punishment on the molestors–what do they get?
And just in case you haven’t figured it out yet, “nice and safe” does not include being subject to rape in prison.
And my question was clear and concise. You’re so full of rage and stupidity you missed that bit.
dave316 has been registered since January 2001 and he still believes that those citations are legitimate and unbiased?
Fighting ignorance really is taking longer than we thought.
Yep, since 1973 and counting.
heavy sigh…
1.) I didn’t say I DIDN’T say those things. What I DID say was that I’ve claimed no moral high ground because I feel that way.
Once again for the slow. I’m WELL aware that for how I feel, it is NOT, nor can it be confused with any “moral high ground”. Are you dense?
Second, if you’re just asking it out of curiosity, and not confusing my feelings toward these things with me thinking that it’s somehow “noble” for them to be killed, then here goes.
I don’t give a good goddamned who gets rewarded or who does the punishment. What the hell does THAT have to do with how I feel about these inhuman creatures and what I’d like to see done to them?
Although I did mention I’d pay good money for it. What “should” be the reward? Again, for the brain cell impaired, I DON’T CARE.
What are you attempting to refer to here? Please cut and paste where I even HINTED that being in prison was “nice and safe”.
I’m quite sure it’s NOT “nice and safe”. What does that have to do with how I feel about these animals?
Rage yes. I’m ONE of their victims, out of too many. Stupidity? Hardly, you just couldn’t be bothered to make yourself clear.
Your “question” was a mere half finished phrase “… Why, the bit about feeling differently of course…”, followed up by a quesiton which wasn’t related to what I’d said. Since what I said, was based on how I felt, so it, your “question” was anything but “clear and concise” as to what part, or which post of mine you were questioning.
You still really have neither understood my response to your comments and “question”, NOR made yourself clear. Based on your post here, you seem to still think that I believe that my desires and feelings here indicate that I feel some sort of “noble act” is committed when one of these things is wiped out.
I do not. I merely would enjoy it. Period.
I didn’t say you said it was nice and safe, you illiterate. I pointed out the simple fact that being subject to what you call the deserved punishment isn’t nice and safe.
And yes, I was quite clear. Try reading for comprehension next time.
** and you never will, since by your own admission, that unless some one has followed them 24/7 for the rest of their days (and probably had access to their thoughts as well), you don’t even believe that objective data from criminal justice system is accurate.
As for ‘we don’t know’, let me remind you that police resources always has access to data re: convicted molesters, that data exists to suggest that the great majority of cases, the perp is known to the family/victim, so, in the rest of the cases, the police would be able to check the list of known folks, to see if a match occurs.
I understand and appreciate that child sexual abuse is a horriffic crime. However, continued intentional misstatements of fact does nothing to eradicate ignorance.
** was responding to more than one person. Now, your assertion that ‘nor do I think that their not reoffending has ANYbearing on whether or not they will continue to molest’ - well, gosh darn, if empirical data doesn’t persuade you, I guess we’re at an impasse.
** see above. It is unlikely that some one who is a convicted molester is not checked out ** and and everytime** there is an unsolved molestation in the area. hell it was a standard even in cop shows “round up the usual suspects”.
** it was said, can’t remember by whom. Like I said, I was responding to several people.
so you acknowledge that data exists that demonstrates the treatment does have effective, but since it’s not 100%, it’s not significant enough. Remember your original position was “it doesn’t work”. not “it doesn’t work well enough” but that it “doesn’t work”.
there is none so blind as those who will not see. I’ve still not seen any data from you to support your position. you made some vague reference to something you’d read some where. (the ‘up to 80%’ or something like that - I’ve seen the same thing - the key for that is ‘up to’ statement. They used the same studies as others, rejecting all of those with a relatively low rate - from my recall, they came in anywhere from a high of 20% to a low of 9% recidivism rate- and found ONE that showed a rate of 80%. the cite I linked had access to all of that data, too, and instead of looking at the most inflamatory one and running with that, they looked at methodology, and looked for the ones most reasonable. that is why I asked you for scientific data, peer review sort of thing, to screen out the obviously flawed stuff that floats around).
It seems to me that you came in here with a preconceived set of ideas. Stated them flat out as if they were obvious facts. Got irritated when called on to prove them. and when faced with actual data suggesting that your own personal convictions are not based in objective facts, reject the studies.
and, since no study will ever follow hundreds of people around 24/7 for years and years, you will be safe and secure in the knowledge that you know what you know.
Yes dearie, I saw what you said, it has NOTHING to do with my posts. So what if the “deserved” punishment (whether I think it’s deserved, or it’s decided by someone else that it’s deserved) is nice and safe or not nice and safe.
That has nothing to do with my posts. At all. You just pulled some vague, and OBVIOUS “fact” out of your butt.
Unfortunately, it’s not related to anything I’ve said. Do try to keep up, will you?
If and until the data can show a 100% ABSOLUTE cure for even one of these creeps. Or the system has him under 24/7 watch. It’s absolutely LUDICROUS to say “if a molestation happens in the area he’ll be checked out”.
Good GRIEF!! Yeah, that’s the same sort of thing they tell someone who’s being stalked. "Well, if he threatens you, call the police.
I do not believe that the data proves a 100% cure rate of even one of these people. I have seen that they have had effective treatment of them. But there is no data that shows for an ABSOLUTE fact that even the ones “effectively treated” are cured, or have no risk or molesting someone at some future point.
AS to my “stated them flat out as if they were actual facts”? and my "vague reference to “up to 80%”. It was actually “42% on one cite,” Which IF you’d READ that post you would have ALSO seen that I referred you to another poster in this thread who’d ALSO posted that same cite. And other cites of up to 90%, which also had similar cites posted by some of the other cites here.
Retracting a statement, is retracting a statement. For you to then come in and continue to rub in someone’s face that they’d had a statement to retract in the first place is poor sportsmanship, and childish to boot.
At any rate, as to the “cure rate”? I still have not seen one single cite from you, that shows that even with treatment, we can be assured that even one of these creatures is completely 100% cured.
Nor do I believe the justice system thinks so either (do please note the (I believe part, making this an opinion), otherwise, please answer this:
If it is believed that treatments are effective “cures,” why are these monsters then registered and monitored for life (though not well enough) after they are released?
OH and the “you’ll be safe and secure in the knowledge”? Hell no I won’t. Did you two idiots MISS the part about me being a victim? My tormentor was never caught, is still out there, and though he “claims” to have not been molesting, I know a family friend, one of this man’s daughters friends that was also a victim.
I haven’t seen him in over 20 years. He lives in the states. Where I’ll be moving in a few months. Not sure if he’ll live through it should he decide to come anywhere near me.
Actually the “near me” part I’m not scared, the near my kid part? I’d take this creature apart with a bbq fork.
As to “blind”? I don’t often have blind spots. I’m pretty easy going about most things. This one thing? I have a stake in the “studies” and the “releasing them” and all that part. I don’t think “they” are doing enough.
Will they ever? Yes, when they can prove 100% that they’ve cured one. Or, if they keep them under constant observation, so that it’s 100% guaranteed that they can’t get near any children, AT ALL.