Child Molesting Priest Killed In Prison

[CanvasShoes]

FTR, monty, I’m NOT a “he”, I’m a SHE.!!!

quote:

Originally posted by CanvasShoes
For the FOURTH time, yes, I read your cites and understand that they “don’t always reoffend”. I’m not saying “I’m right”. I’m not a psychologist. I’m saying I don’t trust that any molester, or his “treater” unless and until they have absolute proof positive, beyond a shadow of a doubt positive.

[quote]
so basically, whenever anyone commits a crime, we should lock them up and never release them? Are you working towards toughening the punishments on all types of crime? Why not? They might re-offend, you know.

[quote]

Nope, that’s not what I said. In this quote here, I’m answering a question regarding a “cite” that states child molesters can effectively be treated, and that methods have shown and 8% improvement in their ability to control their “urges”. And some regarding whether or not a child molesters alleged “illness” can be cured.

No, I do NOT think that people convicted of crimes should be locked up never to be released. BTW, since when did this become great debates? Again, most of my statements were rants. NOT “and this is the way it is”. I’ve stated nothing, since the one wring pointed out (and which I’ve retracted 4 times now), that I’ve said “and this is a fact” etc.

quote:

“I don’t believe, or trust this, where this is whatever data” is NOT the same thing as saying "this is wrong, and I’m right.

it’s as close as you can get really. Even science doesn’t proclaim things as The Truth.

No, it’s not. I’m saying what I, PERSONALLY believe and feel. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me.

I do NOT trust that any one of these creatures can be trusted. I’m afraid of them around me. and I’m TERRIFIED of them around my children. I will never trust them. I’ve never hated anything in my life, except those “things”.

It’s is NOT worth the chance, the chance that their urges WILL be too much for them, the chance that their trreatment WOULD fail, TO ME. Are you GETTING the distinction here?

quote:

Since 99 and 44/100% of what I was saying was my OPINION, I wasn’t asking you to argue with me in the first place.

what’s to prevent an exchange of opinions? You’re saying “that’s my opinion: don’t say anything that may cause me to change my mind!”

Sorry, that was in answer to wring. I came into this thread to rant my feelings on the subject, something I rarely do in any seriousness. I enjoy most rants, and even the silly heated debates that can arise.

In this one, I ranted, in the true sense of a rant. With every bit of pain and outrage I’ve felt for the last 41 years. (yeah, that’s right, I was three when he targeted me).

Could one be cured? I have no idea, but. If someone were to come to me, and say, "here’s this man, he’s a convicted child molester, he wants to:

1.) work in your store
2.) live near you
3.) be anywhere where he might be exposed to children for ANY reason

I’d want to see, absolute 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt, that he’d either been cured? Or was being kept on a very TIGHT leash by our law enforcement.

Look, extrajudicial punishment is completely wrong, for the reason that in 99% of cases, it’s unknown, even by scientific standards, that the person is guilty.

? I think that you think I want to know 100% if they’re guilty?? And are you honestly saying that 99% of the people convicted are wrongly convicted?

Look, this isn’t GD, if you want to bring other criminals into this and make it a debate, perhaps you should start one in GD. As it is, …

Asked and answered above.

I would consent that if a person is found guilty by trial of a breach of ethics or freedom, lock them up for a set amount of time, as statistically it will make society safer. But to condone cruel and unusual punishment such as rape or murder or capital punishment does no one any good and will harm those who do not deserve it: the wrongly convicted.

Well, if you consider that I would like to see them pay for what they did condining it, then I can be considered to “condone” it.

IMO, nothing that is done to them, whether under “regular” punishment, or extrajudicial will EVER make up for what they do. And as someone else said. If this makes me a bad person? So be it. But I’m not in very lonely company, let me tell you.

There are hundreds of thousands of women like me. Not all are angry, but all have lost their trust in this area. And I’d wager (OPINION, NOT fact), that more than most out of that group feels some shade of what I do.

[CanvasShoes]

And it’ll be as much bullshit when he does as it was when he already did!

Sentence structure much?

And you wonder why none of your posts were clear.

[ENugent]

*Originally posted by CanvasShoes *
Could one be cured? I have no idea, but. If someone were to come to me, and say, "here’s this man, he’s a convicted child molester, he wants to:

1.) work in your store
2.) live near you
3.) be anywhere where he might be exposed to children for ANY reason

I’d want to see, absolute 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt, that he’d either been cured? Or was being kept on a very TIGHT leash by our law enforcement.

CanvasShoes, what would you consider to be 100% proof that this hypothetical person had been cured? Can you envision any scenario where you’d accept that?

[Monty]

You know what, CanvasShoes–you’re not only an incredible asshole, you’re an intentional asshole. I bet it’s just as frustrating talking to you IRL as it is here.

[wring]

CS, yep, this is the Pit, but, as I’ve pointed out to you before, it’s the PIT at the SDMB, which means when you post as if something is fact, expect to be called on it.

Yes, everyone has a right to their own opinion. What I’ve attempted to demonstrate to you is that in this case, you allow for no potential evidence to suggest that your opinion is wrong. None. zero.

Your opinion is, apparently, that no treatment works, that they should never be trusted to not molest, 'cause there’s no way to be 100%certain unless they’re locked up. The problem is, that there is nothing at all in life that is 100% certain. (except that death comes to us all at some point). You have set it up that any objective evidence that treatment has some positive effect is rejectable because the subject wasn’t followed 24/7 and therefore no one cannot be completely sure they’ve not molested again. It’s an impossible burden.

In the interest of ‘truth’, I need to point out that you made a factual error in your statement to me. I do not work ‘for’ criminals (any more than a parole officer works ‘for’ crimnals). I do not work for the government, either, except in the sense of having some grants through the Labor Dept.

As far as rejecting my source 'cause it’s from the DoJ, are you serious??? You think that there is some hidden agenda from the justice department to foist dangerous criminals onto the public? care to demonstrate that with evidence??? Cites can be biased, certainly, and just the fact that it’s a government based one wouldn’t automatically prevent that, depending on the subject matter, but hell, the cites I provided also provide crime statistics information. the studies the cite relied on were listed and available to you. If you want to question their bias, you’ll need to demonstrate w/evidence how they are biased.

I have sympathy for you as a crime victim. As a poster, your arguments here leave quite a bit to be desired. (and yes, they are arguments, even if you state that you’re merely ‘stating your opinion’. )

again - yes, you have a right to your opinion. But - holding fast to an opinion, rejecting any possible evidence that the opinion is based on false assumptions is the height of ignorance, and the internet equivalent of sticking ones’ fingers in their ears and chanting “nan-nan-boo-boo I can’t hear you”

Look at it this way - if some one came to the pit complaining that say, “Pit bulls should all be destroyed 'cause you never know when they’ll kill some one”, and insisted that evidence of how often Pit bulls were involved in deadly attacks didn’t matter 'cause no one could prove that any individual pit bull couldn’t in the future attack, or prove that they’d never attacked anyone 'cause there wasn’t video tape 24/7 of each pit bull, etc etc, do you think we should all beg off of this person 'cause they were merely posting their personal opinion and ranting? or would you expect that people would attempt to demonstrate that there was in fact, evidence to suggest that their opinion wasn’t based in fact?

[Ludovic]

*Originally posted by CanvasShoes *
**
No, it’s not. I’m saying what I, PERSONALLY believe and feel. I’m not asking anyone to agree with me. **

Well, it’s one thing to feel it, but to me, “belief” imples thinking that what you believe it a good thing. So you “believe” it is a good thing that those proclaimed guilty by the state should be subject to extrajudicial punishment.

I know that you are not trying to change my mind, but I am trying to change yours…

I do NOT trust that any one of these creatures can be trusted. I’m afraid of them around me. and I’m TERRIFIED of them around my children. I will never trust them. I’ve never hated anything in my life, except those “things”.

"Othering" people is a dangerous thing. It is a slippery slope.

**
It’s is NOT worth the chance, the chance that their urges WILL be too much for them, the chance that their trreatment WOULD fail, TO ME. Are you GETTING the distinction here?
**

I am not getting the distinction, versus other crimes. Why not lock all offenders away, forever? Why not lock everyone in this thread away, forever? Can you be 100% certain we will never commit a crime? CAN YOU?

**
Sorry, that was in answer to wring. I came into this thread to rant my feelings on the subject, something I rarely do in any seriousness. I enjoy most rants, and even the silly heated debates that can arise.

In this one, I ranted, in the true sense of a rant. With every bit of pain and outrage I’ve felt for the last 41 years. (yeah, that’s right, I was three when he targeted me).
**

There aren’t words to express the disgust I feel that someone can do something like that. But there are words I can use to express my outrage at the miscarriages of justice that happen everyday in the U.S.

**
Could one be cured? I have no idea, but. If someone were to come to me, and say, "here’s this man, he’s a convicted child molester, he wants to:

1.) work in your store
2.) live near you
3.) be anywhere where he might be exposed to children for ANY reason

I’d want to see, absolute 100% beyond the shadow of a doubt, that he’d either been cured? Or was being kept on a very TIGHT leash by our law enforcement.
**

I’d have to balance my fear of the safety of children versus the chance that he might not have been guilty.

**
? I think that you think I want to know 100% if they’re guilty?? And are you honestly saying that 99% of the people convicted are wrongly convicted?**

In fact, I’d estimate at least 80% are guilty in general, but to me, “beyond a reasonable doubt” DOES NOT CUT IT when condoning cruel and unusual punishment.

**
IMO, nothing that is done to them, whether under “regular” punishment, or extrajudicial will EVER make up for what they do. And as someone else said. If this makes me a bad person? So be it. But I’m not in very lonely company, let me tell you.
**

I guess once the Inquisitor General has looked deep in your soul and seen the blackness that is your monstrous heart, you deserve brimstone and damnation, despite the facts.

(Oh, and I feel strongly about this too, in case you haven’t noticed.)
**
[/QUOTE]

[CarnalK]

Personally I don’t really care all that much that CanvasShoes was a victim. She is acting like an ignorant ass and that’s all I can see posting. While her past may explain her stance, it doesn’t excuse it. Certainly no more so than a molestor should be excused because of a bad childhood. Plenty of people who were never molested feel the same as CanvasShoes does so obviously that’s not the only reason.

CanvasShoes, you are irrational and I’d feel better if you didn’t vote. But it’s a free country, feel free to fester in your hatred and vote for “law&order” types. No, you will not be lonely in your stance and that’s a shame.

[corndog_man]

The real sad story behind Father Geoghan is that he had no control whatsoever with his feelings towards young boys. He was born with the capacity to do this. Like homosexuals do not make a choice, neither do pedophiles, they just do it because of their genetic makeup.

So, we need to have sympathy with someone with such a grevious disorder, not to condemn him. He did not have a choice, a decision, a weighing of right or wrong. Nature made him the way he was.

---

Recruiting gays NOW! www.nambla.com

[CanvasShoes]

Oh, you did NOT just compare these sickos to being likened to homosexuals!!!

As to the others statements. No, I’m not “just an ignorant ass”.

As I’ve said REPEATEDLY, I realize that this is neither a popular stance, nor are others going to agree with it.

The fact that my opinion is different, and unpopular among those who believe differently doesn’t make me wrong, and you right.

Neither am I saying that I’m right. I have an opinion on this. I have a right to have that opinion.

Have I been enraged in expressing it? Yes. I’ve said that.

As to “I’m this way about everything”. No, I’m not.

But for once wring’s right. This is much too emotional a subject for me.

Not sure why it hit me suddently like this. I’ve never given it much thought during this whole series of events with the catholic church (no, I’m not catholic).

At any rate.

This is it for me in this one.

[wring]

I know that you said you were outta here, but I did want to make this clarification:

*Originally posted by CanvasShoes *
**The fact that my opinion is different, and unpopular among those who believe differently doesn’t make me wrong, and you right.

Neither am I saying that I’m right. I have an opinion on this. I have a right to have that opinion.
. **

and no one is denying you a right to your opinion (as a matter of fact I’ve said a number of times ‘yes, you have a right to your opinion’)

The fact that your opinion is different/unpopular (though I personally think that you’ve expressed a depressingly popular opinion) isn’t the issue to me.

THe problem is that your stance does not allow for any possible event, evidence, fact, data etc to change your opinion.

I have opinions on lots of stuff. When faced w/data that suggests that the underlying assumptions of fact upon which I came to my opinion were wrong, I would modify my opinion. refer to above example about pit bulls.

[missbunny]

I swear I heard today on NPR that his conviction will be overturned since he was in the process of appealing it and died. Apparently it’s a point of law that if the convicted party dies during an appeal, the conviction is overturned. I think that’s the worst thing about this entire situation. Please someone tell me I misunderstood something here.

[missbunny]

No, I am not mistaken. http://www.boston.com/news/local/

If I were one of the victims, I would be outraged and disgusted.

[missbunny]

Bad link, sorry. Try this: http://www.boston.com/news/local/BCWorkbench/site/news/local/BCWorkbench/site/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2003/08/27/geoghans_death_voids_conviction_prosecutors_say/

[Monty]

And what if he had survived the attack and won the appeal, missbunny?

[Jack_Batty]

So what now is the opinion of our avenging hero, Joseph Druce? I suppose he’s just what this country needs, right? He’s an important cog in the judicial system?

This continues to baffle me. The opinions of the mouth-frothing like Canvas Shoes and feistyALgal:

**Frankly, he should’ve been given a ‘live embalming’ from the biggest ugliest burliest men in the prison… in every orifice of his body.

Over and over again, for the next decade, being held down against his will.
With no lube.**

Another enlightened poster. This is not justice. This is torture. Why the fuck would anybody think that this is a good idea under any circumstances?

Think about the visuals. If you’re sincere about wanting that to happen, could really watch some being tortured to death and take pleasure in it?

If the answer is a sincere “yes”, you’re a fucking psycopath.

And don’t give me this, “you’d feel different if you were a victim of child molesting” bullshit, because I ain’t buying it. For very good reasons.

[Monty]

I already asked what should be done with the murderer, who is in prison for another murder of course, Jack. What response? Abuse, but no answer to the actual question.

[Jack_Batty]

Yes, I see your point. It’s easy to be morally self-righteous when it comes to what the priest got, but the other offender doesn’t even enter into the picture, because apparently the ends justifies the means.

And I’m not even against the death penalty in Druce’s instance. But I don’t want it to be via a brutal attack culminating in strangulation and being stomped on. And I certainly don’t want to watch it.

In short, I do think that in some cases death is a justifiable punishment, but torture never is.

[KidCharlemagne]

*Originally posted by missbunny *
**I swear I heard today on NPR that his conviction will be overturned since he was in the process of appealing it and died. Apparently it’s a point of law that if the convicted party dies during an appeal, the conviction is overturned. I think that’s the worst thing about this entire situation. Please someone tell me I misunderstood something here. **

I overheard the words “Geoghan” and “exonerated” while half listening to the news last night and came to this thread to see what the deal was. I don’t see how just being up for an appeal should completely null and void a previous conviction.

[Monty]

My guess, Kid, is that the guy’s not there to assist in his defense nor is he able to confront his accuser (the government) during the appeal and therefore his right to a presumption of innocence is the overriding factor as the appellate court has not granted its imiprimatur (so to speak) on the lower court’s verdict.

I hope one of the lawyers on the board weigh in on this soon.