One theory there is pedophilia may be a sexual orientation, just as valid and natural; as homosexuality or heterosexuality.
Children are excluded from sex in our society, and in many cases are even excluded from knowing what sex is. Pedophilia seems to do the most damage to children by doing things to them they don’t understand and (usually) keep secret - or at least that’s my understanding.
Now if we did not exclude children from sex in society, would the children be harmed in a pedophilic relationship? Does a child get pleasure from sexual contact? Could a child even be the initiator of sexual advances? Would children have sex amoungs themselves for fun?
And by pedophilia I mean one or more participants are before their sexual maturity.
I think children would not be harmed if they were exposed to sex at an earlier age. That is, if we had more nudity, didn’t try to hide the facts of sex, didn’t use baby talk for private parts, that sort of thing. Hell, in some places I’m sure parents still have sex while their children sleep (or not) in the same room. Those kids will most likely turn out okay.
But I still think being inducted into sex as a participant before you’re ready (I suppose “developmentally appropriate” is a better way to say it) is still a bad thing. Even in a sexually open, even libertine, society. There’s a huge power imbalance in child/adult relationships, and I cannot believe kids can appreciate what they’re doing.
Would I accept child/adult sexual relationships if the child initiated it? No. For the same reason, I don’t approve of teacher/student relationships if initiated by the student or management/employee relationships if initiated by the employee: the people are at different power levels to begin with. There is not the same opportunity to truly come together as equals, which (to me) is what consent is really about.
HOWEVER, I do think we make the consequenses of molestation worse than they have to be for many children. (And I know I may take a lot of heat for that stance.) I’ve seen too many people, including myself, who were repeatedly told how awful and horrible and shameful we must feel because we were molested. How we’ll be feeling the ramifications for the rest of our lives, how nothing on earth could be worse than being a victim of molestation. After enough (well-meaning) grown-ups tell you that, you start to believe it. Or you don’t believe it, and wonder what sort of depraved fiend you are that you aren’t messed up. I think a healthier attitude towards children’s sexuality (not to mention simply asking victims how they feel, rather than telling them what they must be feeling) would be less harmful.
Finally, I think kids of a similar age do engage in sexal play, and it’s not usually harmful. There is the opportunity for equal consent there (although there may not be in every instance - I think it would behoove us to make sure everyone knows they can say no and it’s OK.) This is most common in toddlers, who are simply curious about bodies, and will compare fingers, noses or genitals - and I don’t think there’s any damage done. Preteens, of course, are another infamous group for sexual curiosity, and I think for the same reason. As things grow and swell and change, and as they face pressure to start acting like teenagers, there’s bound to be some illicit kissing or petting. Again, I think as long as everyone is at the same development stage and age, and everyone feels free to say “no”, this does no harm.
The age differential is important here. A 7-year old playing “doctor” with a 6-year old is not a pedophile. Neither is a 16-year old who is sexually attracted by a 15-year old. One of the participants has to be adult or teenage for the relationship to be considered pedophilic (although not necessarily in order to be coercive; a 5-year old has a lot more control over a 2-year old than a 10-year old has over a 7-year old). And a 13-year old girl might be considered “sexually mature” on the basis that she is physically fertile, but 13-year olds are neither physically nor mentally adult, and it is still abnormal for a bona fide adult to want to have sex with them.
It depends on what exactly happens and to whom. Fondling or exhibitionism might (and I emphasize might) fall under your thesis; on the other hand, penile (or even digital) penetration of a child can cause substantial physical damage (even with peri-pubescent children). Consider that non-consensual sex can be very painful even for an adult woman, even if the attacker isn’t trying to inflict injury. Penile penetration of younger children can cause life-threatening injuries (hemorrhage, rectal tearing, etc.).
Yes, pre-pubescent children have sexual feelings (see Freud) and engage in sexual behavior with each other (mainly looking and touching) but spontaneous (i.e., without adult / older child coaching) penetration is very rare and oral-genital contact only slightly less so. Prebubescent children’s interest in sex simply does not extend beyond what most adults would consider titillation rather than a sexually satisfying experience; what adults want to do is often disturbing or painful (or worse) from the child’s perspective. In any case, when an adult, or a significantly older child, is involved, there is almost inevitably a coercive aspect that is psychologically unhealthy at the very least. There are plenty of societies that are more permissive / less hysterical about sexual behavior involving children than America (e.g., most of Europe, many pre-industrial societies), but in none of them do prepubescent children spontaneously and voluntarily have sex with adults.
In case you haven’t gathered this from the above, my view is adult + child + sex = bad.
The absolute last thing I’d want to do is to attempt to defend pedophilia. But I think there are some worthwhile questions to be asked.
First, what proportion of people with a pedophilic (or ephebophilic) orientation actively molest children? Are there any studies that actually attach numbers to pedophile-by-orientation and active-behavior-pedophilia?
Second, are there any objective studies that indicate what the effects on prepubescent and in-or-after-puberty boys and girls are of sexual contact with people older than themselves. I ask this because someone cited a study by someone named Rhine or Rhind which I was not able to quickly locate when this discussion came up, that said that, in general, both prepubescent and pubertal girls felt violated, where with boys, the effects were far more mixed: a boy who has some awareness of what’s happening and is not manipulated or coerced tended not to feel traumatized unless his role models behaved as though he ought to be, while a boy molested without knowledge of sex or with some degree of manipulation or coercion was traumatized. I found that divergence on the basis of sex and awareness intriguing, if the person involved (who I think was arguing on a pro-pedophile stance; it wasn’t clear) was not talking purely through his hat.
Third, it might be healthy to recognize what Freud noted long ago (but of course Freudians have overblown): children are in fact sexual creatures. A prepubescent child is curious about sex as something older people, which he or she aspires to be, engage in, and also about the behavior of his or her body. That it’s not the vital issue that it becomes after puberty does not negate that interest and curiosity. My younger honorary grandson, an irrepressible little not-quite-10-year-old, finds his ability to stunt on a jungle gym, to show off his stunt-biking, and the fact that he gets erections and they feel good, to be equally intriguing behavior worth showing off to family and close friends. For him, his erection is not a special issue; it’s just one element of “Look what I can make my body do” alongside his biceps and his ability to wiggle his ears.
After having said all that, I feel like I need to put in the disclaimer that I am in no way attempting to defend actual child molesters. But there are issues relating to this most hot-button of issues that probably require examination. Like everything else this board deals with, I feel that nailing down the facts, insofar as they may be available, is essential to the fighting of ignorance. And if those are available, I think it might be important to get them laid out here by someone with access to them.
I think there is a very useful distinction to be made between pedophiles and ephebophiles. Sexual attraction to pre-pubescents is a far cry from sexual attraction to a physically sexually mature individual who is nonetheless too young, under the law, to consent to sex.
Certainly there are strong reasons to impose such age restrictions. But pedophilia strikes me as much more of a grave and serious sickness.
My best guess is, not much, and I base that on how children currently view kissing. Kissing—meaning, specifically, mouth-to-mouth sexual kissing—hasn’t been particularly hidden from children. They’ve seen it, both in real life (maybe their parents or other family members), and in movies (kissing scenes have been around for decades). And the typical pre-pubescent child reacts to such sights either with complete disinterest, or with thoughts of “Ew, why would anybody want to do that? It’s icky,” or with an “oh well, that’s something grown-ups do” kind of a shrug. We don’t specifically forbid kids from kissing but, until they hit puberty, they don’t show much interest in lip-locking.
The study was “A Meta-Analytic Examination of Assumed Properties of Child Sexual Abuse Using College Samples” by Rind et al. You can read it here and the abstract is
It is important to note that this study included individuals up to the age of 16 and 17 so it is a study of child-adult sex in general, not just pedophilia. A 15 year old who willingly consents to sex with her 20 year old boyfriend has a very different reaction that a 5 year old girl who is raped by her father.
I think it is also important to note that penetrative sex of a child has never been observed in bonobos or chimps. Bonobos are very sexually permissive and the adults will sometimes stimulate the genitals of younger children, but adult bonobos prefer other adult bonobos for their sex partners to the point where adolescent females have to badger the adult males into sex.
I noticed in my anthropological studies that sex acts between young children are quite common. Mostly individuals remain within their age range but they start playing with each other at quite a young age. I’ve also noticed that the majority of societies prohibited sex between adult males and underaged girls and that in societies where child-adult sex was regularly practiced, there was some sort of ritual/cultural significance attached.
There are individuals who have sex with children that are not pedophiles. There are pedophiles who are into children because of the power they have over them and there are those who are into children because they have a child-like mentality themselves.
There are pedophiles who try to justify their behavior by arguing that children are only harmed by sex with adults because of our society rather than by the sex itself. However, this position is extremely faulty. While I believe that a 14 year is perfectly able to have sexual experiences with an adult that will not harm him or her, I do not believe a 5 year old is capable of such a thing. Futhermore, based on the pedophiles I’ve interacted with and those that I’ve studied, I do not believe that most pedophiles have the child’s best interest in mind.
I’m going to have to chime in here. As a child I found kissing (with your mouth closed) perfectly normal and acceptable. Fairly early on I realized that not everyone agreed about this and so I didn’t kiss indiscriminately (and in any case I would have only kissed someone who I felt close to). For me kissing was an expression of affection and nothing more.
As for open-mouthed “french” kissing, I remember sometimes saying “ewww! Gross!” When I saw it on TV or in movies, but I feel like that was a reaction I was taught by the kids around me. Even so, I don’t think was particulary interested in in that type of kissing until I began to go through puberty. I think I saw it as an adult thing that I didn’t really understand.
I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think there is a good chance the “ewww” reaction to kissing is something kids learn. I’m also very much in support of the position that kissing is not only sexual (which must be obvious from all the cultures, Italian for example, that greet each other with kisses).