Wait, you’re confusing me. I thought we Evil Republicans TM were the ones trying to tell people how to live their lives. Like with smoking bans in public places. Come to think of it, who the hell does create those, anyway? No one will tell me!
San Francisco is the “hip” capital for sure. As far as hipPIE capital goes, definately Santa Cruz. It’s a surfer town. For a vegan such as myself, it’s also heaven. Too bad I don’t make it down there too often.
As for what Trader Joe’s is, I believe someone else has explained, but in short, it is also heaven.
:dubious:
The Federal Reserve will increase interest rates when unemployment gets “too low.” Increasing interest rates reduces the ability of corporations to expand. Depending on the financial structure of the corporation, the added costs of paying higher interest can lead to layoffs. This maintains a pool of unemployed surplus labor to keep the economy “healthy.” The idea is that if normal market forces made labor scarce, workers could demand higher wages, which would lead to higher prices (the concept of it leading to thinner profit margins is apparently not considered), the workers ask for higher wages to pay the higher prices, the prices go higher, higher wages, higher prices. Curbing inflation, right? The Federal Reserve is a quasi-government agency, not unlike the CIA.
In a world where jobs are supplied by global corporations, but individual laborers cannot supply their labor globally, there is an inherent unfairness to wage negotiations. If a corporation decides personnel costs are too expensive in your community, they can pack up shop and move the operation to Bangalore. It would be nice to say “market forces will ensure I am paid a fair wage”, but try telling yourself that when the only jobs in town aren’t offering a fair wage and you have to eat. A town can have zero unemployment, but wages remain artifically supressed to maintain the town attractive to corporate employers… because they remember how bad it was when the last corp bugged out and no one could find work.
This thread is horrifying. I know there are a number of overweight posters here, just as there would be in any representative sample of people. Do any of them feel that they have been misled, defrauded and coerced into eating junk food? Do you really have so little respect for our collective intelligence that you believe warning labels on Fritos would make us recoil in horror at the swill we are consuming?
The compulsion to nanny is insulting, in that its base assumption is that we all need protection from our own stupidity. There comes a time when you must realize that stupidity is a persistent part of human existence. Those who are driven to revel in it will pay the price. When you seek to legislate and regulate stupidity out of existence you steal another little piece of my freedom to make choices, and do little to affect the public health.
I do not oppose information and private advocacy. From those who want more government reglulation, I would like to hear what information is not provided on the nutrition label that you feel should be. I would also like an example of deceptive advertising by a major brand food product. I wonder what one expects the government to do that cannot be accomplished by vigorous public advocacy.
The government can not protect you from every bad or undesirable outcome in your life. Personal responsibility is vital. Everytime we choose to abdicate our personal responsibility the nanny state expands. I simply do not believe that the government should intervene to prevent me from making a poor choice, provided my choice does not directly harm another person. I am an intelligent person capable of making my own decisions. Furthermore, I presume others to be intelligent and rational, and I am loath to interfere with their freedoms.
Even considering regional differences, jsgoddess’ statement that:
is not true. In your own example, chips are $1.69-$1.99, and broccoli is $1.69. So the price for crunchy vegetables is the same, or less, than chips. Not more, as s/he claimed.
Even in even sven’s area, Santa Cruz, CA, bananas are currently going for 79 cents/lb.
http://www.geocities.com/n2oland2/
Yes, .79/lb is more expensive than the .29/lb I pay, but bananas are still cheaper than cookies. Where can you buy a pound of cookies for 79 cents? Can you buy even one cookie for 79 cents? I doubt it.
You can get a lot more, and more nutritional, food for $2 at the grocery than you can get at Taco Bell.
What I meant the first time was that they aren’t essential as a staple.
(Why can’t I contradict myself in peace?;))
And I will have to disagree.
As other posters have stated, pound for pound some nutritious alternatives are, in fact, cheaper than some junk foods. The rest is an issue of choice and convenience.
I don’t recall posting that everyone can do it, and I even emphasized the wiggle room in your argument by pointing to exceptions. But I will stand by my assertion that most can.
Nor did I use Brooklyn as an example of places where fresh fruit and veggies are scarce…on the contrary, I believe I said:
and my second reference was in response to avabeth who had just given the impression that one must hump from Brooklyn to Tribeca and back to find decent groceries.
Is it a hardship to find Trendy Organic groceries in Brooklyn? perhaps. Nutritious groceries? No. they are readily available and cheap too. Thus nailing my point regarding the real issues surrounding the poverty = unhealthful foods argument.
Asbestos Mango we’ll keep the porch light on for you!
We live on that peanut butter! And it is routinely 2 Jars / $5.00! I could eat that with a spoon as dessert - I don’t though because that’d be overkill!
I’m trying to figure out how you get a 3 year old to be obese… I have 2 kids, my daughter just turned 3 and my son is 8 months this weekend. They are both off the growth charts but they are very very tall.
My daughter was born 7 pounds 13 ounces and 21 inches tall - at 3 she is 40 pounds and 40 inches tall.
My son was born premature at 5 pounds 15 ounces and 20 inches. He’s 27 inches and 20 pounds.
My daughter eats all the time! Milk and peanutbutter toast for breakfast. Dry creeal as a snack or an apple or tortilla chips. Cheese is a food group for her. I make homemade pizza a lot because she likes that and I can get pizza w/o sauce. She eats what I make for supper and usually starts with her veggies! Every time I turn around she wants something else to eat! She also gets the ocassional donut or wendy’s. I swear sometimes that I must be overfeeding her but she will spend some days where she barely eats anything. I figure she’s listening to her body and I try to encourage that. I don’t force her to finish a meal but I will not give her a snack after when she asks if she doesn’t finish - she can finish the food she has.
The child never sits still. I don’t think she physically can! Videos are wonderful as background for her while she plays. Overcast days are hell because she wants to run and our house doesn’t have a lot of room to run! She’s a monkey. I can’t imagine the volume of food it would take to make this child fat.
When the closest choice is a dirty, filthy Pathmark where most of the produce is spoiled or rotten, then, yes, I shlep to Tribeca. I never claimed that I shlepped to Tribeca for deals - I never claimed that I looked for deals in Tribeca. Nor did I claim I looked for deals in Brooklyn. I actually made more money when I lived in NYC so finding cheap deals wasn’t high on my priority list.
However, in my new state, I live in utter suburbia land, and prices are higher. As I said, I’ve alternated three different stores to find the best deals and things are still outrageous. And as I said, you are more than welcome to visit those stores with me to see the prices for yourself.
Ava
I love that peanut butter!
I’ve just discovered half jars for $3, and will probably get those instead - I don’t like when it sits in the fridge for over a month. I consider that one of my splurges - I don’t really worry about the price because I’d rather eat PB with no sugar than the sugar-laden stuff.
If the parents at the supermarkets that I shop at are any indication, their three year olds are fat because of the Kool-Aid, Doritos, and Cocoa Puffs that seem to be a staple in their carts. I don’t know - I just don’t understand how anyone can think that’s healthy for a three-year-old. I don’t have kids yet, so no, I don’t know how easy or difficult it is to get them to eat healthy, but I’ve watched my strict vegetarian friend with three year old twins, and those kids eat anything their parents put in front of them. We went to my brother’s restaurant one night (upscale Mediterranean/Italian), and those kids were happily chowing down on mesclin greens with vinaigrette, tomato and mozzerella salad, and vegetable pasta with walnuts and blue cheese (in fact, her daughter kept asking for more of the walnuts - she loved them). She can put anything in front of them and they’ll try it once. If they really don’t like it, she doesn’t make them eat it, but there seems to be very little that they won’t eat (and she does give them meat on a limited basis - she’s told me that if they decide in the future they want to become omnivores, she doesn’t want their stomachs to be torn up by eating meat).
Ava
Except chips aren’t that much here, and broccoli isn’t that little here. How does one example that someone else gave prove what I pay for produce here? I just got back from the store. Broccoli: $1.79 for 12 ounces (roughly, it was $1.79 per bunch and I weighed a couple).
Chips are always on sale, one brand or another. One brand here occasionally comes in at 3 13 oz bags for 2. Cookies? FMV brand has two pound bags of sugar cookies for .99. Ginger snaps are 18 oz for that same $.99.
So, contributing to people’s food choices, you have:
- Many people prefer the taste of junk to broccoli or other alternatives,
- Many people prefer that you can simply open a bag of chips or cookies and start eating where whole broccoli stems require some preparation (and perhaps waste, since some people don’t eat the stems but just the florets) and pre-cut broccoli (just the florets) is extremely expensive ($2.99 for a 12 oz bag),
- Chips and similar foods are often amazingly inexpensive, especially if you buy an off-brand, and
- Some produce or other healthy choices are simply not available everywhere.
I’m lucky in that I can afford pretty much to eat how I like. I’m also lucky that my favorite food in the whole world is cauliflower, but that’s another story.
I’m pleased that you clarified your position to include this statement. Fruit and vegetables are vital (and yes, as a staple; hence the drive to eat five pieces a day.) But I quite agree – cheap apples are as good as exotic fruit.
But only up to a point. You actually need variety in fruit too. Again, you can get that variety from cheaper fruits. But eating an apple, a pear and a banana is healthier than eating three apples, owing the to variety of good things that are in different fruits.
pan