How to fight obesity

Great Debates
1

Obesity is an, ahem, growing problem. The fact that the percentage of obese people has risen steadily and alarmingly in recent decades points more to a social problem than a sudden lack of control. Obesity has great personal and public costs. And yet lawsuits against fast food companies and “fat tax” proposals are widely ridiculed. How to we as a society address this issue? I have a few proposals:

  1. Restrict advertisments of junk food to kids. This seems obvious. Children do not have the mental capacity to act with good judgment. They don’t have the same ability to resist or analyze advertisments and products that we do. And yet the eating habits we develop as children affect us for the rest of our lives. Even if a kid’s parents don’t let them eat junk food, they are still going to grow up with McDonalds as some sort of magic ideal (who among us doesn’t remember the spell that McDonalds cast on us a kid? Many of us probably still turn there for comfort.) We don’t need to brainwash people into bad eating habits by marketing junkfood at half formed brains.

  2. Restrict junk food in schools. My school cafeteria sold either nasty government surplus green beans and sloppy joes or your choice of McDonald’s fries, Pizza Hut Pizza or Taco Bell burritoes. The fast food was the same price as the probably equally unhealthy school lunches. And of course there was plenty of soda to wash it down with. Soda companies even held marketing events (I remember a “Josta” van with free samples and skateboarders). Of course kids are going to eat this crap if it is all that is availible to them! While kids and parents should have choices, I don’t think it’s the school’s job or business to provide unhealthy food. If they want chips and soda, they can bring it from home, not buy it (or even worse be forced to buy it due to lack of choices) from the institution supposably looking out for their health and saftey.

  3. Find some way to make healthy food affordable. I can’t really think of a way to do this. Right now, 100% whole wheat bread (the only kind that is really whole wheat…most “wheat” bread is just white bread that is dyed a little darker) is two to three dollars more expensive than white bread. Fresh fruit and veggies, even in season, can get really pricey. Orange Kool-Aide is twenty-five cents a package while orange juice (even concentrate) can cost a small fortune. When you add to that the fact that the poor don’t have time to cook much (I work three jobs, about fifty-five hours a week- when I get home, I barely have energy for the microwave) and may have trouble finding ways to store and cook food (fresh food spoils and the poor’s often erratic schedule can lead to wastage) you have a big problem. There needs to be some way- even if it is just an education campaign, to make access to healthy food easier for the poor (and indeed for us all).

What do you all think?

2

Well, I’m fast becoming one of your ‘obese Americans’. Its funny really. Before my family moved to this country, we were a pretty emaciated lot to be honest. I guess that comes from being dirt poor. However, even the poor in this country (or maybe ESPECIALLY the poor) are getting fatter and fatter. A teacher at one of the Charter Schools I do business with commented the other day. She is from Bolivia and she wanted to do a latin dance class…to teach these kids some of their heritage. A bunch of kids signed up…but couldn’t make it through the first dance session. Now, latino type dancing is pretty vigorous, no doubt…but these kids are in highshcool for gods sake! Anyway, the next class nearly all of them had dropped out…they said it was simply too hard.

I agree that something has to be done, with reguards to the schools. Every school I can think of off the top of my head has a soda machine. Not only that, they get their sodas at a school discount price…I think its like 40-50 cents now per 16oz soda. There are ALWAYS lines at the machines, and the kids take the sodas with them into class.

At many of the schools the kids get free lunches/breakfasts…and this stuff is pure crap. But the kids love it. Let me give you an example I saw the other day. The lunches were standardized, so each day all the kids get the same thing. In this lunch was a small pizza (sausage and cheese with some sause…it was bigger than a personal pan pizza you get at pizza places), cheezy fries (these were french fries with some kind of nacho sause litterally all over them), a cookie, a brownie and a small container of apple sause. Universally, the kids snarffed this stuff up…except the apple sause which was all returned. A teacher and I counted afterwards, and not one kid touched the stuff…and it was apple sause with added sugar anyway. That was the only thing that could even be reasonable excused as ‘healthy’ and the kids didn’t touch it. There was a drink with the meal too btw…chocolate milk, 12oz. The kids didn’t touch that either for the most part, but opted for the soda machines.

The breakfasts are equally appalling IMO.

I think that we American’s (I think its mostly an American problem, though I’ve know some fat Europeans in my time that love fast food as well) have brought this on ourselves. We’ve created a fast food free market that competes with itself to find the best tasting and worst for you foods they can…and then due to the market they give us MORE of it to boot. All these super size and biggie size…larger sized portions, larger sized sodas…larger sized citizens. And its so convient too. Just drive up between meetings (thats what I do), order and there it is…you can eat it right in your car, not even having to get out, while on the way to your next meeting.

Whats the solution? God knows. I’ve tried diets, but there is no way. A lot of the ‘traditional mexican’ foods I eat, when I’m NOT eating fast food, are just about as bad for me as the fast food…and just about as fattening. If we would have eaten like this in Mexico, we would all have died young (well, a lot of us did I suppose, but not from heart attacks and being overweight). Don’t get me wrong…I love this country. But I have to say, this is a problem we have brought on ourselves, and I don’t know what the solution would be.

-XT

3

To quote Binkley, from Bloom County: Eat less, and exercise.

4

Cheese fries and pizza? I love junk food as much as the next person, but that’s just gross!

I was listening to NPR a while ago, and there was a story on a school system that was planning to ban all school-sponsored junk food. No soda machines. No bake sales. No candy sales. More nutritious meals in the cafeteria. Seems like a good plan to me.

5

Strongly disagree with this idea. Not about the comments with respect to children’s judgment, but with the solution. Parents have to parent. It’s not McDonalds’ responsibility to do that. The same comment (that kids aren’t old enough to make judgments) could be applied to any number of products, such as toys, clothes, TV shows, etc. that aren’t “good” for kids when overconsumed. Should Nickelodeon be forbidden from advertising its programming to kids because they might sit and watch it, thereby foregoing opportunities for exercise (another contributor to obesity) and perhaps developing attention-deficit disorder? Should Sony stop running ads for Playstation 2? Barbie may contribute to eating disorders and warped images of women’s roles in girls - should we stop Mattel from advertising the next Barbie DreamHouse?

And how do you meaningfully restrict such advertising while also allowing advertisers to reach adults? Restrict the time such advertisements are shown? But what about the kid who watches some prime time shows and sees an ad for McDonalds meant for adults? Restrict the types of programs in connection with which some advertising can appear? It’s nearly impossible to figure out how to prevent kids from seeing these ads, unless you shunt them to Skinemax pay-per-view. Are we saying that ads for fast food are so dangerous that we have to shunt them to the back with the porn?

Finally, it’s a simple truth that kids want. If they don’t learn to want from TV, they’ll learn to want from seeing stuff in shops, or seeing stuff that other kids have. It’s what kids do. And parents are supposed to be the ones to tell them what they can and cannot have.

I’m more in agreement with this one, although high schoolers should be allowed to have more choices because they are more on their way to being adults. The main issue is one of school finances - the shortfall in revenue that the machines generate would have to be made up somehow.

Wave a wand and . . .

I suspect that if you really made agricultural products competitive by removing all of the freaky subsidies that we use to screw over third world farmers, you’d probably see a substantial reduction in produce prices. But there is also the phenomenon that stores selling produce, particularly fresh, quality produce are not all that common in poorer areas, particularly (at least from what I’ve seen in Chicago) in African-American areas. (Latino neighborhoods in the city frequently have great produce stands). It was a Very Big Deal when a Dominick’s supermarket opened up right near the Cabrini-Green housing project, because the ghetto didn’t have a supermarket before.

But it does seem to be true that a fast food joint is one of the few profitable businesses in an economically blighted area.

“Eat less and exercise” is definitely needed. Although I resented it terribly at the time, our physical education program in high school was actually a model that should probably be adopted more widely. Every other day was devoted to basic fitness - typically running. The goal for the P.E. program was to get everyone in the class who did not have an obvious disability to complete a 5K. But the focus was on basic fitness, rather than on sports skills. (We did also do sports to break up the monotony, but sports were every other day, and rotated between different sports). If P.E. programs would stress basic fitness, rather than sports-specific skills, we might eventually get more people who regularly exercise for the purpose of basic fitness.

6

From my own personal scientific experiment, conducted on a subject of one, the variables of quantity and activity are important, but become less important when one considers the variable of what one eats. Affordability and time management are really non-issues. It costs more and probably takes equal time to order a Big Mac, fries and a Coke than to make my own loaf of whole grain spelt bread at home. Which one’s the better lunch? (Yes, bread and water (tea, actually), some olive oil and balsamic vinegar for dip- quite filling, actually, hardly boring. It’s seeming lack of variety does not make it less nutritious!) How long can it take to eat a banana, orange, apple and an avocado for breakfast? (They’re quite portable.) There are many more examples.

The question becomes: How do we convince the children that it’s cool to eat like this? That their parents are nincompoops, and don’t know how to feed them?

It seems to me that many years ago (200? 300? When was wheat first refined?) we got sidetracked away from the diet our bodies evolved on (with?), and our present diet of processed, valueless foods has become engrained (pun) as just the way it is.

7

You may be interested in a book I read recently: Fat Land by Greg Critser. It analyzes the many factors that have gone into making us so remarkably chubby, and how obesity got to be worst among the poorest people in the US.

I think individuals are going to have to start paying a lot of attention to what they’re eating, and what schools are serving to their children. Changing our own diets and making noise at our schools will IMO make the biggest difference; it’s more complicated than simply trying to legislate people into eating differently.

8

Parents can’t compete with brainwashing. Parents have one shot at trying to get it right. McDonalds has millions of dollars to spend on consumer research and years of experience to figure out how to best influence your kids.

Toys (such as toys with sharp parts), clothes (such as flammable nighties) and TV shows (such as shows with flashing lights that could trigger epilepsy) all face regulations when they pose a direct problem to children. While unhealthy food does cause the direct damage that flamming jammies do, it is harmful, especially when taken up as a child. Thus, we should regulate how it is marketed. I just want kids to have the chance to make intellegent and reasoned decisions for themselves before McDonald’s starts grabbing at their brain.

We seemed to do a good job with cigarettes and alcohol. No ads during kids shows. No cartoon characters shilling it. No promotions or prizes aimed directly at kids. We’ve tread this ground before and it’s seemed to work out fine.

Well then, let them figure out what they want without millions of dollars of marketing with the most sophisticated research in the world behind it trying to tell them that.

High schoolers can stop at the store on their way to school, or petition for open campuses, or whatever. I don’t care what they eat, but I don’t think the schools have a duty to provide them junk. The revenue problem is a big issue, but I just don’t think schools should prey on their own students for book money. Theres got to be a better way.

Here I agree with you, although I think a big problem with PE is the dicipline problems that crop up. If a kid get teased, beat up, or harrassed, it is more likely to happen in PE than any other class. We need to take PE seriously or do away with it. The current “let them run wild” plan isn’t working.

9

Yeah, but how do 5 people feed 700 students without having to cut a few corners on healthiness?

My high school usually has stuff like spaghetti, poutine, tacos and caesar salad. Healthy foods usually take longer than, say, chicken burgers. And I’m happy that the school can afford a cafeteria - most other schools including my former elementary school are lucky to have volunteers to sell chips at a canteen!

10

Are you seriously comparing fast food to sharp toys and flammable clothes? We restrict those goods by getting them out of the market, not by saying “OK, you can sell these, but don’t advertise them to kids.” Junk food does not do the same damage as these things. Eating a hamburger or a candy bar doesn’t kill you, maim you, or harm you immediately. At best, it is a contributing factor to obesity in the long-term when over-consumed without sufficient exercise. It’s absolutely ludicrous to compare junk food to sharp toys and flammable clothes. No one has ever had to get stitches after eating a hamburger, or suffered third-degree burns from a Snickers bar.

The comparison to cigarettes and alcohol is also completely ridiculous. Cigarettes are not even advertised on TV, for one thing. Second, and more importantly, both are actually illegal for minors to purchase. Are we putting junk food in the same category now? Are we going to hide it behind the counter and card people before they buy it?

Plus, what about the billboard problem? Both cigarettes and alcohol are advertised on billboards. Should McDonalds not be allowed to show happy kids eating hamburgers on highway billboards? Kids see those too.

Comments like “parents can’t compete with brainwashing” are the coward’s justification for dispensing with the First Amendment. Parents can. Many parents do. Should those who sell products oriented to kids not be allowed to tailor their advertising to reach that audience if those products lead kids into behaviors that may someday make them obese?

11

Oh, no doubt. Easier said than done though, when you are building your own business. I used to be heavily into martial arts…but I simply don’t have the time or energy for it anymore. As to eating…well, again, fast food is convient and fast (thats why its fast food)…which fits into my hectic days.

Just about the only extra free time I have (a couple of min. here, a couple there snatched from my schedule) that isn’t devoted to my kids and wife I spend here now. Maybe when all those big capitalist bucks start rolling and I light my cuban cigars with $100 bills, I’ll be able to have some free time to start working out again…if I don’t get TOO fat in the mean time. (my wife is laughing at me atm…I suppose I am only 10 lbs over weight after all. But compared to how I used to be I feel like a blimp :)).

-XT

12

Move.
Do anything.
Don’t just stand or sit there.
Flap your arms like Meatwad for a minute.
Do anything.
Walk up and down a flight of stairs 3 times. Then add one more flight each week. Add infinitely.
Nod a hundred times. Shake ‘no’ a hundred more times, each slowly.
Move. Walk one block, and walk back. A long block, or three short ones ones. Double that number each week.
Open and close your hands quickly about 30 times, then increase that number by 10 each week.

13

Maybe we just need more programming like Fox. Y’know, brainwash all the kids into thinking that if you’re overweight, you are unattractive and no one likes you. A little anorexia never hurt anyone.

14

Well, for someone with so little time, you’ve managed to make 500 posts here in the last 3 months! :stuck_out_tongue:

Didn’t you learn self discipline when you were stuying martial arts? Don’t you see that eating poorly is a major contributor to why you have less energy? Your body is a machine, you have to give it the proper input for it to generate good output. As someone said earlier, it really doesn’t take much time to put together a lunch and snack at home. Then you can eat it at your desk, which actually saves you a lot more time than going out to get something. Or if you have something like a Trader Joe’s nearby, go in on Monday and buy 4-5 lunch salads for the week. I used to do that at the last place I worked. I’d eat at my desk and then take a 30 minute walk afterwards. The solutions exist. It’s up to you to avail yourself of them. Also, it’s up to you to set a good example for your kids. Think about it…

15

I believe kids gravitate towards soda because of the caffeine. Few get enough sleep these days and most are hooked on caffeine by the age of 10 if they are allowed to drink soda.

I was at a local attraction a few weeks ago and was sitting on a bench watching life go by. A father and his 2 sons passed by. One of the boys was about 8, the other about 12 or 13. The father says “Let’s head over to that snack cart, I’m hungry”. The 12 year old chimed in “Yes, good idea. I could use a coffee”!

IMO, caffeine is a bane upon society.

16

It’s more than growing! Lately, I’ve been seeing the word “epidemic” used frequently in stories about obesity. This is not a joke, it’s a very serious problem whether you are an overweight child or adult. 30% of children in the USA are overweight, 10% are truly obese. 64% of USA adults over 20 years old are overweight, nearly 2/3 of the population! Nearly 300,000 deaths each year in the USA are related to obesity. For the last 15 years, doctors have seen a huge increase in early onset “adult” Type II diabetes in children as young as 10.

From Mayo Clinic site:

Some other links:
Childhood obesity: Parenting advice

Obesity and overweight link collection

I agree with both of these statements although I would change the word “Restrict” to “Completely ban”.

I can’t speak to the plight of poor neighborhoods but nobody is going to do anything for you for free. It’s up to you to do what you have to educate yourself. There are certainly many resources available, particularly for someone who has easy access to the web or a library. Learn to read the labels and understand what is in the foods you eat. If you don’t do this, then you won’t no when you are getting good value.

This Google search on healthy + eating will generate over 4 million hits for you to browse through and learn more.

I question your statement that healthy/fresh food is more expensive. If you compare what you get in a fast food place, you will always be able to make the same thing for less cost at home, and of better quality. Have you brought a salad in a store or fast food place? You probably paid $3-5 for it. You could make the same salad at home for probably $0.50!

Virtually everyone in the USA has a low price warehouse store like Costco, a Sam’s Club or whatever within a reasonable driving distance. You can buy foods in big packages at significant discounts. I was at Costco today. Some of what I brought included a box of 19 lb box of oranges for $7.99 ($0.42/lb), a 6 lb bag of pears for $3.99 ($0.65/lb), 2.5lb of fancy mixed nuts (no peanuts) for $8.99, 1 1/3 lb of fresh Ahi Tuna at $8.99/lb, etc.

17

Correct, children don’t have the capacity to make good judgments which is why the parents are in charge.

The same goes for ice cream, pizza, and any other “junk” food you care to mention. When I was a child I always looked forward to McDonalds despite not have access to a television or being bombarded with advertisements. I didn’t get it that often though so it was a real treat for me.

I guess we could eliminate vending and soda machines in schools. If you want kids to eat healthy then you’ve got to actually provide a desirable lunch menu. I don’t know if that’s possible for a lot of school districts to do and maintain a lunch everyone can afford.

First, what’s so great about wheat bread vs. white bread or orange juice vs. orange kool-aid? I prefer wheat bread myself but I just don’t see a huge benefit to eating it over white bread. Orange juice contains a lot of sugar and isn’t all that much better for you then Coca-Cola other then getting some vitamins. I think people can eat a pretty healthy diet without breaking their bank.

I suspect this is the real reason people eat to much junk food. It’s just so much easier to stop by Jack in the Box or open a bag of Doritos then it is to prepare your own meal from scratch.

Marc

18

Is this a typical high school experience? I ask because at none of the schools I attended growing up (there were quite a few as I moved 9 times) were there soda machines, or was there any choice other than the school lunch (which cost $1.35). Come to think of it, the NHS at my high school did run a snack bar that sold candy bars and sodas, but that was only available afterschool.

19

Actually, it was Milo.

20

I bemoaned the lack of any serious physical education classes in American schools in a thread here a couple of months ago. You would have thought I had taken a dump in the living rooms of some of the respondents. They were appalled, shocked, disgusted, and deeply offended that anyone would suggest that kids should participate in any sort of organized physical activity.

I hope that they’re equally appalled, shocked, disgusted, and deeply offended when their insurance premiums are through the roof because of their poor health, they can’t get up out of their chair to get more Ding Dongs from the cupboard, and they have a massive heart attack and die at a young age.