Should I have them? I’m seriously thinking no.
I hear stories about Global Warming, Famines, Weather shit, etc and basically how Earth won’t be too desirable to live in a few years.
Am I wrong? I really don’t want to be responsible for a crappy life for kids who grow to adults.
Someone please enlighten me. Because I’m not sure about these facts myself.
I understand how they are practically necessary as a part of life, mostly to be loved by, the experience, something to do, to pass on the DNA (shall we say), etc.
Is it worth it? What about the extra money? Or the less grief?
Please tell me your side of the matter.
Teelo, you are the only person who can decide whether or not it is worth it for you.
Some things to think about :
- do you have the desire to parent ?
- do you have positive thoughts towards babies, toddlers, teens, etc ?
- is having children something you’ve always wanted / not wanted ?
- are you currently in a position to do so ? (financially, emotionally, etc)
I think it’s wonderful that you are thinking about it, as I think too many people drift into parenthood without ever stopping to consider whether they want to or not. I have spoken to many people on this topic, and IME, people can generally be divided into the following categories :
- Never really weighed up the pros and cons, because they always just knew it was something they wanted in their lives.
- It just happened.
3)Weighed up the pros and cons and decided yes or no. - Never really weighed up the pros and cons, because they always just knew it was something they did not want in their lives.
I am a #4 person. Sounds to me like you’re a #3 person, in that you’re trying to decide mentally, rather than having a strong emotional compulsion in either direction.
Now, everyone will have their own opinions on the matter, but yours is all that matters. Personally, if I wanted to have a child, global warming or weather would have little to do with the decision. I’d be more concerned about what sort of partner, what financial situation I was in, etc, but each to their own. You also mention that you don’t want to be responsible for giving a kid a crappy life. Well, IMO if you want a kid, go out and learn as much as you can about raising them. No parent is perfect, but the more you educate yourself and the more you learn, the better a parent you’ll be. Don’t be scared off because you’re worried you won’t make the grade - gain the knowledge so you’ll pass with flying colours. You also mention that having children is practically necessary as a part of life. It isn’t. If you choose not to have children, that’s your choice and you can still lead a happy life.
As to whether it’s worth it… well, I’ve heard stories from all sides. I’ve spoken with 50+ year old women who have never had children and never regretted it, I’ve heard heard from people who remained childless and bitterly regret their choices. I’ve also heard from parents who have told me they would not have children, if they could live their life again, and others who think it’s the best choice they ever made. What I’m trying to point out, is that you have to make the decision that is right for you. Not the decision that is right for your neighbour, your cousin, your great-grandmother, etc. It’s your life, you need to lead it the way you see best.
I’ve read about an online questionnaire that you can take if you’re undecided about having children, I’ll see if I can hunt it down.
You asked for my side of the matter : My experience probably won’t be all that helpful to you, as I said, I’m a #4, so I never had to weigh up the pros and cons, or agonise which way I should take my life. I always knew I didn’t want to have children. It’s just not part of my make-up. It’s just something fundamental to my being, the same as some find having children to be.
And 200 years ago a settlers wife asked her husband if they should have children in such a rough and uncaring world.
I do not think that any time would be ideal to have children. I think now is safer and more providing for children than anytime in mankinds history. So if you are going on that risk alone, yo have to take you fears into context of “timetables”. If you want children, have them, if not don’t make excuses.
“If you want children, have them, if not don’t make excuses.”
I think Spite hit the nail on the head. If you’re worried about environmental considerations, that’s probably more of an indication that you think you might not want to have kids. I’m sure our parents were told the world was going to hell in a handbasket. I was born in the era of bomb shelters and race riots. I’ll bet things looked pretty gloomy, but I’d rather be an adult now than back in the 50s/60s.
Here is the quiz I mentioned. It was written by the infertility support group, Resolve, but currently hosted on a childfree site.
Here is one woman’s thoughts (short) on choosing whether or not to have children. She is childfree, after infertility.
At the bottom of this page, there is a checklist of questions you should probably also think about. The whole essay is interesting, (IMCFO) but it is long, so scroll down to the bottom for the 12 questions, if you’re busy.
Just remember that the choice to have or not have children is morally neutral. Neither choice is inherently selfish or unselfish in itself, though either choice can become selfish based on the individual.
Good luck in your search, and I hope you find the answer that is right for you.
The effects of which will be far from catastrophic for your children raised in Canada. For all the environmental damage possible, global warming won’t directly affect your children.
The world produces far more food than it needs. Much is dumped into the ocean, or burned. Famines are the result of corruption and wars, not a lack of food production. Again, a Canadian has no need to fear famine withn the next generation.
Not sure what this means. Weather patterns are changing as they always have.
Which is basically hippy propaganda. In 1979 Paul Ehrlich predicted mass famines across the US by 1985. Over half the population was supposed to starve to death IIRC. LA was to have been abandonded due to a lack of water by 1990. If you want to reduce your fears I suggest you grab a copy of ‘The Population Bomb’ and other works of Ehrlich.
There are people and groups out there who make a living out of public donations, prompted by publicising erroneous predictions of the imminent end of the ‘natural’ world. They have, unsurprisingly, failed to come true.
In reality the standard of living is rising sharply worldwide, as is general health and life expectency. Wars are becoming less common. Pollution in North America is dropping sharply, and can be expected to continue doing so.
There has never been a better time to have children. All indications suggest that they will grow up in a world far better than the one that you and I did. There is far less for modern Canadian parents to fear than parents of any previous generation anywhere in the world.
Teelo,
For the love of all that is holy, don’t breed. It IS a selfish act, regardless of the motivation. Your DNA means nothing after you are gone. You should never create another human life just to be loved, or to be taken care of when you are old.
Think for a moment how egotistical and selfish it really is to have kids because of what a wonderful experience it is. The ultimate rush, like white water rafting or bunjee jumping.
If you have the urge to teach and bring good into the world, mentor, or big brother big sister, or volunteer at after school programs. Become involved in nephews and neices (neeses? noose?) lives. And if you really must have one of your own, adopt.
But whatever you do, DON’T MAKE ANY MORE OF THE LITTLE BUGGERS!!! Finding Nemo was loud enough as it was.
For more information, see The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement - http://www.vhemt.org/
I object to your post, Tastycorn.
Having children or not having children are both as selfish as each other. Neither choice is more selfish. Think about it for a minute, both choices are about what the individual wants. “I want children” or “I don’t want children”. Both are concerned with how the person wishes to lead their lives.
Please don’t turn this into a finger-pointing, ‘your choice is more selfish than mine’ debacle. I am so sick of hearing the word ‘selfish’ thrown around whenever the topic of having/not having children comes up.
And I was trying so hard to hold back…sigh. Time to get the pointy finger out.
Goo, there is huge difference between making a “selfish” choice that affects only you and making a “selfish” choice that not only affects a whole new person, but all the inevitable effects that person will have on the planet. It is, in one fell swoop, deciding to use millions of kilowatt hours of power, hundreds of innocent animals and vegetables, hundreds of trees, tons of steel and countless other resources that otherwise might still be around.
It’s like trying to argue that driving a hybrid toyota and a 6000 pound SUV are equally selfish because “they are both cars”. WRONG. One has a much greater effect on the external world, and poses a much greater danger to your fellow humans.
Use whatever terms you like, but the decisions are not not equal, morally or objectively.
Hmmmm, unintentional double negative. Negate one not.
Utter rubbish. I can’t think of anything MORE selfish (in this year of 2003) than children.
Teelo - I know this may sound blunt, but the fact that you’re not sure if you should have kids is a reasonable indicator that you should indeed NOT. Children are no more a “practically necessary part of life” than pets are. And most people, for the duration of their pets lives, remain completely ignorant as to what owning a pet really entails.
Oh, Swoop, ain’t that last sentence the truth.
As regards the kids/no kids question, if you have to wonder if it’s worth it, the answer is almost certainly no. As has been pointed out, kids are not a necessity. Sure people dump on you for being child-free sometimes. Guess what? People are going to dump on you sometimes for having kids, or for having the wrong number of kids, or for having the wrong hairdo, or for any number of other things that are none of their damn business.
Frankly the reasons for having kids listed in the OP are crappy reasons to have kids. No one should ever have a child just because someone else expects it. If you want someone to take care of you when you’re old, invest the money you’d spend on a kid, and use the earnings to hire a private nurse. If you need something to do, get a hobby, for the love of Og.
Goo, I’m trying to figure out where on your list I stand. I used to assume I’d have kids, and thought I wanted them, but then my friends all started popping out the younguns and the interest just evaporated. It wasn’t a sit down and weigh it out sort of thing, more an instinctual “No way in hell” response. Where would you put me on the list? Or do I get a whole new category of my very own?
Whatever category we put CrazyCatLady in, I’m there too. I used to have names picked out, all that stuff, but then my attitude suddenly changed, and now I’m definitely CF.
I think Goo’s suggestions are the best for the OP, though. He/she needs to think about it, no one, especially no one who knows them only from a few posts on a messageboard, can definitively answer this question for them, as it is a pretty fundamental question of how one wants to live one’s life.
Teelo - if you are not sure, just keep your options open. Practise safe sex, and be honest with partners about your uncertainty.
You may find that when you meet a certain partner that your desires just change - either way. You may grow into the sort of lifestyle where children don’t have a place, and there are other things to fulfil you. Or you may meet someone who you just really want to have children with.
I am sort of fatalistic about it. Right now, I don’t want them. In the future - I may. I hear a lot about “biological clocks”, how can any woman know for certain that hers might not start ticking? On the other hand, few of my other views and desires have changed: I still adore career and adult life, I still find the whole baby-scene uninteresting, I still very much enjoy my totally responsibility-free situation, etc.
IMHO there are good reasons to have children and poor ones. It is a highly personal decision that is nobody’s business except those doing the procreating. After all, how much more personal can you get??
Among the poor reasons are:
To procreate one’s name.
To care for one in one’s old age.
Because your parents “need” grandchildren.
To increase your welfare benefits.
Because somebody else thinks you should.
There are not enough people in the world.
Among the good reasons are:
Wanting a child to love and nurture AND having the mental, physical, emotional and other resources to care for a child.
It is wrong, just wrong, to try to inflict your views on the matter on someone else, either way.
Not when those views are asked for.
tastycorn, thanks for that link, I can only wish more people in that movement would take their own advice and become extinct.
As to the OP, you need to assess your reasons for wanting a child. For me, I decided not to breed - purely for selfish reasons. i do not actually enjoy children, and wish to live an unrestricted life. YMMV. for many people, their children are their very reason for living.
Assess your reasons either way, and be honest wth yourself. And as Blake mentionedabove, don’t buy into the eco-bullshit you hear and see everywhere. Why, it wasn’t that long ago the same people were predicting doom due to the coming ice age. The world is indeed a far better place to bring up children than any time in history. Only remember that this is far too important a decision to be taken lightly. Glad you are not.
Teelo;
As just about everyone has said so far, in one way or the other, this is a choice only you can make. If it helps, here is some of what you will face as a parent (all the outside distractions not withstanding) from someone who is one already:
It is hard, HARD,HARD !! And I’m not just talking about giving up your sleep, or the teething, or the ear infections, or deciding who will care for your child if and when you go (back) to work. Parenting does not stop after that baby is no longer a baby. You will stress every decision. Is this the RIGHT daycare person? Is it okay for her to play in the park accross the street? When do I let her start being independent (although, they pretty much make up their own minds about that, and long before you’re ready to let go)? Is it okay for her to be on the internet?
You worry. Constantly. You question yourself and every decision you make. Constantly. But you make the decisions, because they have to be made, and right now. The scary thing is, although some answers are obvious, for the most part, you won’t know which decisions (the little ones) will stand out in their minds, and which ones were wrong.
I wish I could tell you it will all work out and be okay. But one of the great truths you learn as a mom is: Sometimes it doesn’t. All you can do is your best. With as much love as possible.
I quote Jason Robards from Steve Martin’s film “Parenthood:”
“It never ends. You never cross the end zone. You never spike the ball. It’s like your Aunt Martha’s ass. It’s scary as hell and it goes on forever.”
But, do remember: there are not just compensations, but times when, should you decide to have children, you will know that you have never been so happy as your child just made you, merely by smiling and saying “I love you, mom.”
As most have said here, it’s a personal decision. And as Maureen said, the rewards are great, though not necessarily so - children grow up to be human beings with freedom of choice, which may mean choosing not to have anything more to do with you once they’ve left home. As she says too, you never stop worrying about them - not even when they are grown up with children of their own.
Having children is the greatest commitment any human being makes. You may divorce your spouse, but you can never give up being a parent. Be sure you want to take on that commitment.
CCL & Melandry, OK so my list may need to be refined 
but in the meantime, I think you both sound like #4’s who didn’t know it until later.
Society can condition you pretty heavily to assume the 2.5 kids, dog and white picket fence (not that there’s anything wrong with that 
) is what just has to happen. As soon as you thought or heard of an alternative, it immediately felt right to you, so #4’s you are. Of course, you can always make a better list, if you want !
So what do you think Teelo ? Are you already leaning one way ? Do you have a partner who is leaning one way ?
Have we been linked to from a VHEMT or a ZPG page somewhere ?